Episode 17

Scaling back high expectations of yourself to get your first digital product launched with Emily Ryan

Emily shares her digital product experiments including a Mailchimp course that she didn’t launch, paid workshops with replays and email templates. Together, we brainstorm some ideas on how she can scale back the expectations of herself and her products.

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Emily is a Mailchimp Pro Partner and has been working with brands and clients for the last 8 years to grow their business with email marketing. Emily is based outside of Chicago and has 3 little ones!

On the show, Emily and I discuss:

    • The course that Emily tried to create and how she quickly got overwhelmed
    • Trying out paid workshops and selling email templates
    • Selling on your website vs. on a separate store like Etsy or Gumroad
    • Always marketing your product and creating evergreen content
    • Creating a series of videos vs. a traditional linear course
    • Creating a free mini course to use to market
    • The pressures of a course and the benefits of live videos
    • Emily’s audience and the importance of defining one
    • Ideas on packaging products for a specific audience
    • The 1:1 training calls Emily offers and how she might maximizing the calls by offering group packages
    • Ideas about how to price new offerings
    • Finding the time and considering a “beta” program
    • You don’t need to offer every single thing and the benefits of simplicity
    • Emily’s advice for new creators

Find Emily at Westfield Creative, Instagram, Twitter and on Gumroad.

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[00:00:00] Rene: Hey everyone. Welcome to Your First Digital Product, a show that helps maxed-out service providers create their first digital product so they can gain an additional income stream, grow their impact without increasing one-on-one work and experience more time freedom. On the show, I talk to business owners who have launched digital products and dig deep into how you can create, launch, and market your first digital product. I’m your host, Rene Morozowich. Let’s go.

[00:00:28] Hey everyone. Today I’m here with Emily and Emily is a Mailchimp Pro Partner and has been working with brands and clients for the last eight years to grow their businesses with email marketing. Love email marketing. Emily is based outside of Chicago and has three little ones. Hey, Emily.

[00:00:44] Emily: Hi. Thank you for having me. This is exciting.

[00:00:46] Rene: I’m so excited you’re here. Yes, yes. I love email marketing. So I’m gonna try not to talk to you all about email marketing. Let’s, um, do you wanna tell us a little bit more about yourself before we dive into your product?

[00:00:57] Emily: Yeah, so I’ve been doing this about eight years. Um, I, I wanted to find a way to work from home.

[00:01:03] Um, I, I had lived in New York City many years working. I worked for a startup and a nonprofit, and, um, I ha I hated office life. I hated going into a nine to five job. I’m, I wanted to be at home. Um, so I had the opportunity to kind of work from home for that company and, and eventually discovered I could start my own business.

[00:01:22] Um, and literally started with one client and over eight years have really built, built a business. Um, we have, there’s three of us that kind of work together every day. And, um, we, we serve like 25, 20 to 25 clients a month. Um, doing everything from, you know, designing emails to training, Mailchimp training.

[00:01:44] Um, we’re, we’re very heavily focused on Mailchimp as a platform. Mm-hmm. But we, we, we have worked in other email platforms as well. Um, but we love, we love Mailchimp and we are Mailchimp partners. Um, so we do a lot with them as well. Um, and yeah, I just lo I’m obsessed [00:02:00] with email marketing because I’ve seen, you know, what it can do to grow.

[00:02:02] Mm-hmm. Grow someone’s business. It’s like insane what can happen with, with a single email. Mm-hmm. like a single email, um, that takes maybe 10 minutes to create, can literally make you a lot of money. Um, so I just really, I really love my work and, um, yeah, it’s, that’s what I do.

[00:02:22] Rene: Yeah. That’s awesome. I think email is so important.

[00:02:24] Um, I’m sure at some point I’ll talk on the show or have the blog post or whatever that like, you should have an email list. Everybody should have an email list. It doesn’t matter. I’m sure that you might agree. It doesn’t matter how big it is. It just matters how engaged people are. And I think that, um, people need help with Mailchimp. Because why do they put things in the places they put things? Like why do they call things, certain things? I’m like, why do they welcome email here? Like it’s, I

[00:02:47] don’t know, it’s a weird process.

[00:02:48] Emily: And yeah, they’re constantly, they’re constantly working to improve the, the platform and, and it’s amazing what they do, um, to kind of listen, listen to us partners, especially to hear what, what, what we’re not having or we’re having trouble with. And, um, yes, we’re always trying to improve it, so

[00:03:04] Rene: Yeah. That’s awesome. You have a product already. Um, you have some templates, like, was that your first digital product? The template, the Mailchimp templates that you have?

[00:03:12] Emily: Yeah, so, so my dream has always been to create a digital product, um, really to have passive income.

[00:03:20] Mm-hmm. Um, client, you know, serving clients is hard. Mm-hmm. We all know this, like being a s having a service-based business is, is exhausting. Um, so it’s always been a dream. You know, I’ve, I’ve followed like Laura Belgray. Mm-hmm. Um, Marie Forleo, like all these big people, Jenna Kutcher, these, these women who are making like millions, you know, with their courses.

[00:03:40] Mm-hmm. Um, and just blows my mind like what they’ve done. So I’m, I have always had that in the back of my head, like, you know, ultimate goal is to create a product. Um, so originally I start with a course. Um, I wanted to create a Mailchimp course. Um, I thought that was like a no-brainer, you know? Mm-hmm.[00:04:00]

[00:04:00] Mailchimp 101, or, um, it was really called Mailchimp Rockstar, and it was gonna be, you know, just a really comprehensive Mailchimp course. And I, I used Thinkific, um, when I first started to create this course, um, I had looked around at several platforms and I really, I really loved, loved this platform.

[00:04:18] Um, but the more and more I was working on it, it was so daunting. Like I was, I could not get this course done. I had made the whole outline of the course, I had created graphics for each section. Um, but it, it was, I’ve never been overwhelmed with helping clients. Like I’ll have 20 clients that all need something today, but I could not get this course done and it’s still not done.

[00:04:42] Mm-hmm. Um, and so I think what happened was, I, I wanted, you know, Mailchimp is, can do a lot of stuff and you’re talking email marketing, which I could literally write a book, you know, a mm-hmm. novel about, so here I am trying to put this into a, a course. Um, and so I realized over time, I shouldn’t be creating a mail, full Mailchimp course. I need to hone in on, on one thing, like maybe mm-hmm how to create automations in Mailchimp, or design, design. Like, let’s just focus on designing a great email. Um, and, and a good friend of mine said, Emily, you’re, you’re trying to do too much, like mm-hmm. Just scale back. Um, so yeah. So I, I have a course that I’ve been working on. Still in progress. Um, so that was really where I first started.

[00:05:26] Um, and from there I actually went to creating paid kind of workshops. Mm-hmm. Paid workshops was my next, um, product through, um, then I used Gumroad, which I love. Have you ever used Gumroad?

[00:05:41] Rene: Yes. Yeah. Yeah. It’s very easy. Yes.

[00:05:43] Emily: Oh my gosh, it’s so great. Um, so I was like, you know, I, I kind of just wanted to test it and see like what people pay to come to an hour workshop with me.

[00:05:53] Um, you know, you never think people would do that. Mm-hmm. So I, I started and I was blown away, like, oh my gosh. Like [00:06:00] people actually are paying and all I have to do is like, come and teach for an hour. Yeah. Like this is crazy. Um, so I did quite a few of those. I was trying to do like one a month, um, and realized that’s a lot of, it was a lot of work because I needed to heavily promote it.

[00:06:15] Mm-hmm. Create a lot of emails to market it. Um, so quite a bit of work, but honestly, not, not crazy. You know, I could probably bust out the whole, uh, marketing effort in a couple hours. Um, so I’ve really enjoyed doing that and, and I’m still kind of testing, testing that. Um, I did, you know, one class was like $79 and then the next one was, I was like, let’s do like a cheaper one, like $20, $29.

[00:06:41] Um, and I was like, okay, this, this $29 one was not worth it. Mm-hmm. Because I, you know, the amount of money it generated was just not worth the time I had spent. Right. You know, preparing for this. Um, so still testing that, but really love. Like I, I used to be a performer. Um, I was a singer and dancer.

[00:07:01] Rene: Awesome.

[00:07:02] Emily: Way back in my past life. And, uh, that’s why I moved to New York originally. And so it feels a little bit like I’m performing when I do a, a workshop or a webinar, um, or even like this, like it’s kind of fun for me.

[00:07:15] Rene: Yeah, for sure. That’s awesome.

[00:07:16] Emily: So yeah, so I did, did, uh, some of those and then, uh, you know, we’re always, my sister is my business partner.

[00:07:24] Mm-hmm. And, um, she and I have worked together with this business for years and we’re always trying to come up with ways to you know, sell a product. Mm-hmm. And so then we’re like, okay, well what if we sold, you know, some email templates, like, let’s, we, we’ve created thousands of templates. Mm-hmm. And we’ve saved them all.

[00:07:42] Like, I have every template we’ve made in our Mailchimp account, um, hundreds of newsletters. Crazy. Like, why are we, we could sell these. Mm-hmm. So we, we found out there’s this whole business on Etsy. Um, so, and we can dive into that more, but, uh, we started [00:08:00] kind of creating some listings in Etsy, selling Mailchimp templates that people can download the file and import into their Mailchimp account.

[00:08:07] Mm-hmm. So, so that’s really where, where we’re at right now with, with products. But, um, Yeah.

[00:08:13] Rene: Yeah. Super easy of like, I love that, like a template, and I think a template is so actionable for people, right? They like, they, they’re maybe not good at the design or I’m sure it’s more than just design, right? Like you’re, you’re putting calls to action and, and certain you’re, it’s marketing strategy kind of baked into the template and people just import that.

[00:08:32] Like they could see really great results so easily, you know, for, yeah, I’m not sure how they’re priced, but you know, probably, you know, not hundreds and hundreds of dollars so people can see a quick return. Um, it’s very easy for them to, you know, to use and implement. So I think that’s awesome. Um, I know you have a store too.

[00:08:49] Do you, have you seen a difference in the store front versus the Etsy? Um, you know, some people will ask like, you know, where should I list my product? Um, and I’m, yeah. You know, we’re kind of diving into at, at some point, like, you know, does it matter, you know, if it’s on Gumroad or if it’s on your website or if it’s on Etsy or where. Do you have any thoughts on that?

[00:09:08] Emily: Yeah, I mean, I think it, I think it does matter. Um, you know, Etsy is, is very competitive. I mean, there are, if you search Mailchimp template, there are thousands and thousands of listings, and it’s very hard to get onto that first page. Mm-hmm. Like, you have to sell a lot to get onto that first page, but you need to sell a lot, you know, it’s, yeah.

[00:09:26] It’s very, it’s very challenging. Um, . I think obviously if you create your own shop and your own website, you have full control over the SEO of, of your website and getting, you know, if you wanna run Google ads to your store or Facebook ads or, or whatever it is, um, you know, I think your own storefront is always a great idea.

[00:09:47] Mm-hmm. Um, or, or, or you can use gum, Gumroad as your storefront. Um, any, any platform like that. But, um, I, I definitely think when you have control over the algorithm instead of Yes. Yes. Etsy [00:10:00] deciding mm-hmm. Um, that’s, that’s gonna be more effective.

[00:10:03] Rene: But regardless, I guess also there’s marketing involved, right?

[00:10:06] Like a lot of people are like, I built the product and then that’s it. It’s, you know, I have a background in like web development. It’s the same thing. People are like, I built the website. Like, why is no one coming to the website? Well, you still have to market, uh, the product. You have to let people know it’s available, uh, repeatedly.

[00:10:20] People have to hear things multiple times and, uh, you know, there’s always new people coming along, so, you know, if you’re, it’s the fourth time you’ve said something, it’s just the first time they’re hearing it. So, you know, kind of, you know, some repeated marketing I think is, um, important for any product, uh, on any platform.

[00:10:38] Emily: Yeah. And I think that’s one thing I always noticed with, with all the big course creators that I, that I follow their marketing is, I mean, they are literally sending emails every day. Mm-hmm. like, uh, Tarzan Kay is another, um, she has a email course. Literally an email every single day and Laura Belgrade every single day.

[00:10:56] And I, you know, it’s, it’s hard. Mm-hmm. Like that is, people think, okay, we’re gonna create this course and then, you know, I’m just gonna make, make money and let it run. But yes, you have to continually market it. You’re right.

[00:11:07] Rene: Yes. And I would think with something like Mailchimp, like it changes. So, you know, what would your approach be for.

[00:11:15] How often you’re updating it, you know, would people who purchased it get access to those updates forever or not forever.

[00:11:23] Emily: I think it’s really, that’s really tricky. Um, and that’s why I, I really got overwhelmed doing like a comprehensive mm-hmm.

[00:11:29] Like learn Mailchimp course. Um, because I, I’d rather focus on something more, more kind of email marketing related mm-hmm that doesn’t change. Like, okay, how, how do we design an effective email? Mm-hmm and yes, I can say design an effective Mailchimp email, but really it’s about designing a great email in any platform.

[00:11:45] Rene: Right. Right.

[00:11:46] Emily: So it’s not necessarily specific.

[00:11:49] Rene: Right. So I, I’ll give you an idea that I, I, I’m, I stole from somebody else. Uh, so Joe Casabona was on the show. So I, I, I’ll point you to it and I’ll point the listeners to it as well. Um, [00:12:00] but he created a course before too about podcasting and his experience was, uh, in this blew my mind because I’m not this kind of person that people would take the course in a non-linear fashion.

[00:12:11] So people would just jump to the section that they wanted to learn about. You know, and this for me, like, that’s not like I’m taking it from the beginning and I’m going in a line and I’m gonna sit through the end. But people out there who are just jumping around with the videos, so he, he transitioned and now he calls it a playbook where all those videos still exist, but people can just jump around.

[00:12:34] And he calls them plays. You know, it’s, I think it’s like a baseball thing. I’m not really sure. Um, you know, so if people are interested in design, you know, let, let’s kind of bring it back to your example here. People are interested in email design. You know, maybe you have 1, 2, 3 videos about email design. People are interested in,

[00:12:51] um, automation. You have a couple videos about automation. Yeah. So they can watch them in a certain order or they don’t have to watch them in a certain order, but all together they are, it, it’s a package. It’s a package of things. And maybe a good way to kind of create that package would be to just keep doing these webinars.

[00:13:09] Yeah. Or what, whatever you’re calling the workshops. Um, yeah, there’s a lot of words for this, this kind of thing. Do these and then roll them into a package of like, yeah, here’s all the things, you know, and then maybe it’s a membership, you know, maybe people pay like a monthly fee and they, they get access to all these past videos.

[00:13:26] Um, you know, maybe they get access to the live videos. So when you do them live, people are asking questions, so people want to come to them live because you’re answering those questions live. Right. You know, and that’s more exciting for them. Um, and then maybe, you know, they could even be a certain price for a certain amount of time.

[00:13:44] And then, then they go like into, you remember the Disney vault, and I’m not sure how old you are, but do you remember the Disney Vault? Goodness. Oh my gosh. Like you couldn’t get the videos after a certain amount of time. So I guess maybe what I’m trying to say is, you know, in a, in a jumbled way, if you kept doing what you’re doing, I [00:14:00] wonder if the course would actually build itself without being called a course.

[00:14:04] You know, it would just be a nice collection.

[00:14:07] Emily: I love that. And it’s, it’s, you know, I, I do a lot of small speaking. I’ve spoken about Mailchimps so many times, and there’s no reason we shouldn’t use that. Yes. And, and put it into something. Even if I were to only bundle three or four of them and say, here’s my four workshops for this one bundle.

[00:14:25] I like the word bundle.

[00:14:26] Rene: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Bundles are good.

[00:14:28] Emily: Yeah, that’s, that is, that’s brilliant. I need to think about.

[00:14:30] Rene: And some, some free, maybe, you know, maybe there’s, you know, a lot of these platforms I think, did you mention Thinkific? I have a lot of these in my mind here, but you know, a lot of them will allow you to do a free course. So it’s a free mini, you know, maybe it’s just one of those past workshops and you know, people, it’s an easy.

[00:14:48] Easy in for them. They’re like, okay, well this is, um, I’m just gonna test this out. It’s only an hour. You know, they’re kind of getting a nice taste. They can take something back and implement it really quickly, and then they’re like, I love Emily. I need everything else she ever says. Give me it all. You know, I’ve seen this sort of thing that like people, you know, once they know you and they like you and they trust you, then they want more.

[00:15:09] They’re like, okay, I know she can help. She helped me with this thing. I know she can help me with the, the rest of the things. Tell me everything else you know, about Mailchimp. So, you know, I feel like that might be a good, good way to kind of get that course totally built without calling it a course. I don’t like to, I don’t like courses.

[00:15:24] Emily: I think when I think back to creating that, I, I put so much pressure on myself to create this, like mm-hmm. And I even like was posting on social, like, you guys, it’s coming. Mm-hmm. Like Mailchimp course is coming. I put so much pressure to make this in like amazing, like mm-hmm.

[00:15:39] amazing course. And I wanted to, to do a lot of videos. So I wanted to, to speak and do a lot of videos through the course. And I have three kids. And I was like, when, when am I going to record? Right, right. Like really an edit record and edit. Mm-hmm. Like professional looking, you know? And so that’s, that’s really what, um, stopped [00:16:00] me because I was like, I can’t get these videos, like mm-hmm.

[00:16:02] for this course done. Um, and so that, that was the hardest part.

[00:16:06] Rene: That’s the other thing about a live, live,

[00:16:07] I could do a live, live, live. People don’t, people don’t expect and edited. They expect like all the, you know, not that like the kids are running in the background, but like, yeah. You know, like carving out an hour might be more manageable and then you don’t have to edit. People.

[00:16:20] You know, they want to come live because you know, the chance that you might answer their specific question. Um, and then if they can’t get it live, if it’s in the membership or whatever they can watch it later. And, and again, they know it was live, so they don’t expect it to be, you know, with like the sliders, you know, like your name and Mailchimp and the little, you know, like all the graphics and stuff like that, they don’t expect that.

[00:16:41] So I, you know, it’s a, a much. Uh, realistic, but I think ultimately people just want their problems solved. So the video doesn’t have to be any sort of specific quality as long as the content is good. That’s kind of my so true opinion.

[00:16:59] Emily: That’s so true.

[00:17:00] Rene: My opinion on things. So anyway, um, okay. Let’s maybe a little talk a little bit about your audience.

[00:17:05] So who are, what type of business do you work with and who would be the audience for these? These sorts of things? Like these templates? Yeah. Specifically or you know, who, who would you market this, this kind of stuff to, yeah.

[00:17:18] Emily: And I think that is like the number one question, especially if you’re building a course.

[00:17:22] Like, okay, who is this for?

[00:17:24] Rene: Yeah. Who’s gonna buy it?

[00:17:24] Emily: Yeah. I actually had a hard time with that because I kind of have a very mixed audience of people. So, uh, you know, I have quite a few people that are like virtual assistants or that are literally doing the same work that I do. So they, and they just need to learn Mailchimp for their clients or for their job.

[00:17:42] Mm-hmm. Like other women like me. But then I would say most are these very small business owners, solo entrepreneurs, um, that know they need to send an email and they just don’t have time. Mm-hmm. Um, and, and, and we do, we actually do a lot of, uh, [00:18:00] one-on-one training of Mailchimp and, and it is, It is the same type of, of client, um, a lot of these, you know, realtors, um, you know, solo entrepreneurs that mm-hmm.

[00:18:11] That just need a little a, a hand. Right. Um, so that, yeah, that was really the audience and especially for templates. Um, when we first started, you know, creating this template shop, we’re like, let’s, let’s kind of. You know, and on Etsy, they have so many, just like general newsletters mm-hmm. We’re like, let’s be really specific.

[00:18:28] Yeah. Um, we, we have, we are constantly getting leads from, from real estate, real realtors. Um, because every realtor sends a newsletter mm-hmm. It’s, it’s this whole thing. Um, so we are like, let’s create a really amazing real estate newsletter or a couple different ones. Um, so that’s what we first put on Etsy.

[00:18:46] They were realtor newsletters. Um, there’s like a huge market for that. And for some reason they all use, they, a lot of them use Mailchimp, so. Mm-hmm. Um, yeah, so that’s kind of who the audience is.

[00:18:58] Rene: I feel like that’s a great, I feel like that’s a great start. Like you could hone in on that, like if you did some workshops specifically for realtors mm-hmm.

[00:19:09] And packaged it for realtors, like, I don’t know, what are the five things that realtors need to know when you, you know, based on your, if you, if you’ve worked with them, coaching, what are the things that they need to know? You already know that. So if you package it up, you know, like I mentioned, a live workshop.

[00:19:25] Even a small group like, hey, small group of realtors. We are doing a six week class, and maybe you get templates. Like maybe included with it you get extra templates and you get maybe like, I don’t know, office hours or something where they can come in and ask their questions. So it’s like a six week thing, and then after it was done, you bundle it up and sell it to all the incoming realtors that are knocking on your door.

[00:19:50] After that, like it’s, it’s already vetted. People have already come through. And you’ve already answered their specific questions, you know exactly. And I bet, and I [00:20:00] don’t know, tell me if I’m wrong, um, like you don’t have all the time in the world just to work with every realtor that comes knocking on your door,

[00:20:09] So this would be something to offer them.

[00:20:12] Oh my gosh. Be able to offer them something.

[00:20:14] Emily: Yeah. I didn’t think about like bringing them all together and doing a workshop specific to that’s, that’s so smart. And I have not really seen that done. Um, so that is, yeah, I’m like taking notes. Uh, yeah.

[00:20:26] Rene: And selling it afterwards because, but it’s like.

[00:20:28] Emily: It’s crazy cuz we get a lot of the same industries.

[00:20:31] Um, we, we actually get leads that come from Mailchimp cuz there’s, they have an expert directory mm-hmm. And we get a lot of leads from there, thankfully. And, um, it’s like real estate. There’s like a lot of mortgage brokers, like these very small small businesses. Um, Yeah, it’s crazy.

[00:20:48] Rene: The mortgage broker package, like, here’s the templates that you need as a mortgage broker.

[00:20:53] Here are the, here’s how to segment your list. Here’s how to, um, I don’t know, make a landing page for people to sign up. You know, how, here’s how to import your existing list. Here are the people that you’re allowed to put on your list, right? You’re not just allowed to put anybody on your list like that kind of, I feel like maybe people don’t know that.

[00:21:08] Um, just all the things that they, they specifically need to know yeah. That you can create for them.

[00:21:13] Emily: It would be a, it would also be a kind of a dream for, you know, working with realtors can be very challenging. Mm-hmm. Um, cuz many of them just want one, one newsletter sent every month. Mm-hmm. And, and we typically don’t do that anymore because it’s a lot of work just to have, have a client that you just send one email a month for mm-hmm.

[00:21:31] Like, we typically are like, okay, we at least need to do two, two to four our emails a month for you. Yeah. Um, but if I could say, hey listen, we’d love to work with you, but I have this other package. Go check this out. Mm-hmm. Like, this is all, this is what you need. And I, I could just send people like, yes, yes.

[00:21:45] It’s like sending people to the FAQ page, like, yes. I, I can’t, can’t really help you right now, but yes. Just go here and get that.

[00:21:52] Rene: Correct. Yes. Something that is, you know, because hopefully your prices are such that not everybody can afford you. So for the people who [00:22:00] are right underneath that threshold, Here is something it’s, you know, it’s a DIY, you know, you can take it and go.

[00:22:06] Yes. And, um, so tell me a little bit more about these. I noticed on your website you have some calls. People can book mm-hmm. a call, uh, like a half hour call or an hour call. Are, do you do a lot of those?

[00:22:17] Emily: Yes. Um, a lot of people need Mailchimp training. Mm-hmm. And you can actually, in the Mailchimp directory, you can search for just people who do training.

[00:22:27] Um, so we created a Calendly page. Mm-hmm. Um, and it’s all automated. So, um, we offer 30 minutes and 60 minute Mailchimp training and anything you want email marketing. Mm-hmm. Or Mailchimp related. So basically you come with your questions. We’ll answer them live. Mm-hmm. Or we can, I even tell people, I’m like, listen, we can create your template live and it’s actually cheaper than me creating your template for you.

[00:22:50] Mm-hmm. Interesting. Yeah. So it’s like kind of a good deal. Um, and, and they’re priced pretty high. I, our, our one hour calls are $300. Mm-hmm. Which it’s a lot for an hour for a lot of people. Mm-hmm. Um, but I did that because I have children and I have, I can only do so many per, per week. Right. Um. So I price ’em pretty high, but people buy them.

[00:23:12] Mm-hmm. Um, and it’s, it’s really cool. So they go, they go to that link, they, they click the 60 minute call, it sends them an email. It sends them a follow up with like, okay, hey, you know, here are a couple questions before I call. Let me connect to your Mailchimp account. Um, and it’s, I literally just show up.

[00:23:30] Like I get a notification and I, I know what questions they’re coming with and it’s so fun cuz I, you know, it’s not like I have to do a ton of work.

[00:23:38] Rene: Prepare and do all the things. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you can get it done. That’s like, I sometimes struggle to get something done in that amount of time. Like you’re pretty focused then, and you have.

[00:23:48] You’re on it. Like, is, how does that work?

[00:23:51] Emily: Yeah. Yeah. So, so yeah. I have very specific blocks of time that, that we offer these. And, um, I, I’ve done a lot. Like, and, and, [00:24:00] and for me, it’s kind of my favorite thing. Um, my favorite thing to do is mail. I love people that that know that email’s important and they just like mm-hmm.

[00:24:09] they just need help and, um, they just, yes. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Like, oh, Emily, can you, can you show me how to do this in Mailchimp? Yes. Mm-hmm. And we share, I share my screen and I record it and then get them the recording after. And sometimes I’ll send them some resources after. But it’s all like a pretty automated process.

[00:24:24] Mm-hmm. Which is so fun.

[00:24:26] Rene: That’s nice.

[00:24:26] Yeah. Yeah. What about like, I guess I’m, I’m trying to think about how you could, even though you’re charging a good bit, how you could maybe maximize a little bit more off of that while still giving you what you want. What about like some sort of office hours where you know it’s X amount of money and you take up maybe to 10 people and you know, here’s the time and here’s, you know, submit, you have to submit your questions ahead of time and maybe only take a certain number of questions or, I know something like that where

[00:24:52] Emily: I was thinking of doing something some.

[00:24:55] Rene: More.

[00:24:55] More because the one-on-one, I feel like you’re just limited based on your time. Like at some point you’re like, I don’t have any more one-on-one time for people. So like is there a way that you can serve more people in that same amount of time? And does it, is it beneficial to people? I’m thinking, yes, but you tell me, to see you working in other people’s accounts, like to see you like, oh, hey, they’re doing that thing.

[00:25:18] So that might even be more beneficial for them to attend something like that where they’re actually getting a little more exposure to what other people are doing instead of kind of in their own bubble. Yeah. With their own list and their own account.

[00:25:32] Emily: Yeah. Watching someone create an email, yeah, live for you is so, is so helpful.

[00:25:38] I mean, I, I signed up for a webinar to watch someone live code, code an email. Um, and I can’t wait. We don’t do, like, we do some coding. We don’t, we aren’t heavy, like email coders. So I’m excited to watch that. But, um, I’ve thought about that, like, how can I do, I was always saying a mastermind, which I don’t like, but how can we do kind of a group, [00:26:00] a group thing where it’s, you know, five to 10 people and you get mm-hmm.

[00:26:03] You know, once a week for, or, you know, whatever it is, once every two weeks. Yeah. We, we together and we dive in. Yeah. Um, and I, I really think there would be people that would jump on that. Um.

[00:26:16] Rene: Like a cohort, like a cohort of people. Be like, Hey, we do a three month cohort. It’s, you know, biweekly calls and it’s X amount of money.

[00:26:25] You submit your questions ahead of time. I connect to all of your accounts. Maybe have some kind of disclaimer that you’re looking at other people’s accounts and they’re not gonna say anything. Or even something like that. It’s zoom calls, you get access to the recordings.

[00:26:37] There’s a. I don’t know, maybe there’s a Slack group or something where they can ask a couple questions offline. You know? And you could have different levels too, of, you could. It’s an experiment, right? Yes. You kind of put something together and exper like, okay, how did this work? Uh, they bothered me too much.

[00:26:53] Uh, they had too many questions. You know, can I charge more or can I answer those questions in some other way proactively? Like, you know, maybe they have to, maybe everybody always has this one specific question and you have some maybe pre-recorded workshop that you’re like, Hey, everybody has to watch this first before you’re allowed in the cohort, because I can’t have anybody not knowing this thing.

[00:27:13] Something like that, like.

[00:27:14] Emily: Yeah, so that’s so brilliant. Yes. Oh my gosh. Um, yeah, my wheels, my wheels are spinning. Um, but it’s always like, okay, what do you charge for that if you’re doing something over three months? Mm-hmm. Like, it’s gotta be, you know, and I’ve seen other people do, you know, email, email bootcamp?

[00:27:29] Someone did and it was very ex like, you know, I thought it was very expensive. Um, and I’m always like, oh, I couldn’t charge like about $4,000 for something, you know, like that.

[00:27:40] Rene: But it’s a test. I think it’s a test. I think it’s, you know, like you mentioned, you said something about, uh, it wasn’t worth my time for the money.

[00:27:48] And I think that’s kind of the litmus. If you can, if you feel good, like, okay, I’m showing up to this thing, I like to do it, I’m making a good amount of money. Like, you know, you probably need to be charging more. [00:28:00] Um, but I think you can experiment with it. There’s no, you, you could probably do some, you know, kind of calculations.

[00:28:05] Okay, I think it’s gonna take me about X hours a week over X weeks. You know, don’t forget your administrative time and all that kind of stuff. You could probably come up with a rough price, but, see who bites and how quickly they bite, how quickly it fills up. You know, if it fills up in 10 minutes, like, okay, next time it’ll be more.

[00:28:24] Yes. Um, you know, so I think you can, you can play, and I think that’s the most fun. Right. I think experimenting with those things to see, like, I bet at one point you didn’t have those one-on-one calls, right? Yeah. Like, you just, that wasn’t something you offered and then you came across it and you’re like, I love this.

[00:28:38] Yeah. This is amazing. So fun.

[00:28:39] Emily: So, yeah, it’s, it, it’s just so nice too because you don’t have to, like, the relationship is one hour, like you do a training and then mm-hmm. Although it often leads to other work, they usually come back and they say, oh, can you help me also do this? But, um mm-hmm. It’s kind of nice just to have a one and done and not have, because we have a lot of clients that are monthly mm-hmm revolving. We’ve had some clients for years. Um, so it is kind of fun to have this like, okay, you get one hour and then we’re, we’re kind of done.

[00:29:05] Rene: Yes, yes. Yeah. The commitment is right. It’s not so much of you. You know, you’re giving a lot, right? You’re giving a lot in a lot of areas of your life just to be like, here’s the thing, bye-bye now.

[00:29:15] Like, I don’t know, I think feels good.

[00:29:17] Emily: Yeah. There, yeah. There’s just so much. Yeah, and, and even, even thinking about this, like the cohorts like, okay, how do I find time within my service based very busy client business that I, I barely have time for, um, to build this out. Mm-hmm. Like okay, I would need a really great landing page.

[00:29:35] Um, you know, if I wanted to do a three that’s three month cohort, like. How, you know, finding the time to build that out is my, is my issue. Yeah.

[00:29:45] Rene: Well I would, you didn’t ask, but I’m gonna tell you anyway. Um, what I think, because this is my podcast, I love it. Um, I would put the word beta on it and then people’s expectations adjust.

[00:29:59] They [00:30:00] don’t need the fancy landing page. They don’t expect other things. Like, Hey, you all, you are my Guinea pigs. Um, I’m not sure if you’ve seen White Christmas, but he talks about Guinea pigs in White Christmas. Right? Like when they bring the show. Oh. So if you put beta, you know, Hey, audience, I’m trying something new.

[00:30:21] I, I think that there’s a need out there. You know, I’ve worked with a lot of you one-on-one. Um, I see you needing help. You’re coming to me. I want to be able to help more people. Mm-hmm. Um, and I think that a group would allow, uh, you all to help each other. So I’m building this thing out. Here’s what’s involved. If you wanna sign up, this is when it starts, you know?

[00:30:41] And I think that beta really puts huge, like a, yeah, like the pressure way down. You can do it more week to week. Um, but I would, you know, and I’d be happy to look at if you wanted to kind of map it out, like what it would look like, you know, to to give you some thoughts on that might be too much or, yeah, what if you scaled this back, or what if you charged extra for that?

[00:31:05] Because you don’t need to offer so many things to people, like you don’t have to give them every single thing that they, that they could ever possibly want. Yeah. They can’t consume that. It’s too much for them and it’s too much for you, so, right. I think like.

[00:31:19] Emily: That was always, that was always my hangup.

[00:31:21] Yeah. Mm-hmm. Like.

[00:31:22] Rene: They’ll get more if you give less. Yes. I think is like, or maybe less a t-shirt. Um, they, because they’ll be actually be able to absorb it. Like if you give less, but more specific, like, okay, this is a specific problem, here’s the specific answer to it. Instead of like, here’s every feature and every single thing that Mailchimp can do.

[00:31:40] Like they don’t need to know those things. They just need to know what they need to know where they are.

[00:31:45] So.

[00:31:46] Emily: Right. And I think that’s what I loved about Gumroad because I just found it like, so, cuz creating a landing page to me was always overwhelming. Like mm-hmm. I, which is funny cause I do it for clients all the time, but, um.

[00:31:57] Rene: Totally different when you, [00:32:00] yourself, night and day. Night and day.

[00:32:02] Emily: But in Gumroad, it’s like, I just created a page. I, I literally picked a date. I was like, oh that Thursday looks pretty good. Mm-hmm. And filled in a little bit of text and I was like, you know, people don’t have a lot of time. So, you know, my last workshop was, um, it was like learn A/B testing in 30 minutes.

[00:32:18] Mm-hmm. And I was like, this is, this is great cuz like it’s super easy. Like we have 30 minutes, you’re not gonna get some comprehensive A/B testing. Mm-hmm. course. Like I’m going to go into Mailchimp and I’m gonna show you how to do it. And then you’re gonna walk away knowing how to set up an A/B test.

[00:32:31] Mm-hmm. Um, so really, like, really simplifying. Mm-hmm. Simplifying the offer. Yeah that’s.

[00:32:37] Rene: Because it’s a complex thing and I feel like when you’re first starting to teach somebody about A/B testing, like you just need to tell them what it is first. Before you teach them all the nuance and all the things like, like they have to learn one thing at a time.

[00:32:50] So giving them all those things I at once I think is too much. Uh, but giving them that first thing I think is so important. Like, okay, this is what it is. Here’s how to do it. Go try it for a while. When you’re ready for the next step, the next step is, I dunno what the next step is, but uh, you know, the next step is this or here’s some additional thoughts about it.

[00:33:08] You know, maybe that’s another workshop or another video. Like something le the, it’s later, it’s the next thing. It’s not Yes. It’s the, this thing like, yeah. So yeah, that’s my. Totally.

[00:33:20] Emily: Yes. Um, Yeah. Now I just, I feel like you’re just giving me some amazing, amazing ideas.

[00:33:26] Rene: Hopefully not thank too many things.

[00:33:28] Sometimes I like overwhelm people with all them like okay ideas. But I love the ideas.

[00:33:32] Emily: So great. It’s so great.

[00:33:33] Rene: Yay. So can you think of maybe two to three things that you recommend for somebody? So you’ve launched some templates, you’ve attempted to launch a course.

[00:33:42] What are maybe some things that, just to kind of recap that you are glad that you did or wish you had done differently.

[00:33:50] Emily: Yeah. And I, I think you kind of just touched on it. I think start small. Like start small. Don’t say, okay, I’m gonna create this massive course. Um, you know, I, [00:34:00] I’ve seen several friends, they literally start with a mini, a mini course they call it mm-hmm.

[00:34:04] um, and make it mini, like, make a mini course for $29, $39 bucks. That is something very simple for you to create, um, over, over a weekend. Um, you know, uh, a friend of mine said, literally, Emily, just sit down with, with a pad, a notepad and just make, make, like, make your little outline. Make an outline of your course.

[00:34:24] Um, but I think really thinking about also like the p you have to know who this is for. Mm-hmm. Um, and, and what it is that they really need help with. Mm-hmm. Um, and, and as an email marketer, I do get a lot of the same questions. Like, we literally have like the five, same, like, how do I grow my email list?

[00:34:42] Um, how do I get more clicks, like the same questions over and over. Um, so those questions that people ask you, that’s what you need to, to build. Mm-hmm. Um, you know, how, how do I increase my open rates? Like I, we could build a whole course on that. Um, so really figuring out what the problem is that you wanna solve.

[00:35:02] I know it sounds cliche, but that really is the name of the game. Um, yeah, and, and you’re right. Like it doesn’t have to be some like super edited. I was so hung up on that. Like I needed to have like subtitles or like gra, you know, like .Yeah, no. No, gimme simple. Um, and I think what was really helpful is like actually going and signing up.

[00:35:24] And signing up for a platform. Mm-hmm. Um, I know Thinkific they assign you someone for onboarding and I had like a couple calls with them and they were so helpful and they literally gave me deadlines. They’re like, okay.

[00:35:38] Rene: Oh, nice.

[00:35:38] Emily: Um, I think I did pay something. Mm-hmm. Minimal to have like an extra hand.

[00:35:45] Mm-hmm. Um, and they would like, give me deadlines. They were like, okay, next Friday I want you to come back and I want you to have your in Thinkific like, I want you to have this checkout page built or this, this page ready. Interesting. Or just have your thumbnails like, like just have these [00:36:00] ready. Um, and so it really helped me just to have someone, um, kind of push me a little bit.

[00:36:05] Yeah. But yeah. And also think out of the box from the, from doing a course, like mm-hmm. You know, the course world is, you know, there’s so many courses. Like, yes. What other digital products? Um, you know what’s interesting? Uh, I, are you on TikTok at all?

[00:36:19] Rene: I’m not, I’m not, I’m not, I’m super big video person, but tell me about it anyway.

[00:36:24] Emily: Oh, I love, I love the TikTok. You know, if people, people don’t realize that the TikTok is not just like kids dancing. Mm-hmm. Like it’s every, everything. There’s like cooking videos. There’s, I don’t know, I, I somehow get a feed of like, um, a lot of digital product people.

[00:36:39] Rene: Interesting. Okay. All right. So I’ll be heading over to TikTok.

[00:36:43] Emily: There’s this woman that gives, gives an idea every day for a different digital product. And she was just talking about making, um, like a journal. She was like, you, and she literally told how to do it. Like you get like this company, you make the cover in Canva. It’s literally a blank journal and this company prints it and you sell it on Amazon.

[00:37:02] And these people had like 11,000 sales for a what? Literally a paper journal that like, oh, you could make the cover on Amazon. Interesting. So there are all these, there are so many things like that, like, you know, it doesn’t have to be, it doesn’t have to be something major. It could be a paid workshop.

[00:37:19] Mm-hmm. Um, if you know, anything about anything. I mean.

[00:37:24] Rene: Yes. And most people do know something about something.

[00:37:26] Emily: Yes. Then you could really start to create, um, a workshop. Obviously you need people to, to market that to. Mm-hmm. Um, you know, I use my, I have an email list of my own, which actually is not very big.

[00:37:38] Um, but it is very, very engaged. People that have mm-hmm kind of been with me for, for years and, um, I really utilize that to promote these paid workshops. Um, a lot. These are LinkedIn and super

[00:37:51] Rene: fans. Yeah. LinkedIn I think is good. Yeah, I know. And, and people are like, what platform? I even struggle with this.

[00:37:57] Like, what platform should I be on? And the things I don’t [00:38:00] know that, that isn’t important as if you’re getting that feedback. Like if you are getting inquiries, uh, maybe for people who have specific questions, what are those questions? Like there’s, there’s a product right there, you know, people are asking for answers to this specific question and especially if repeated, you know, people are asking repeatedly.

[00:38:20] Everybody’s always asking about this, always asking about that. Like, they’ve have already found you. So, you know, wouldn’t it be great to give them something, give them a worksheet, give them a, you know, a workbook, a template, um, you know, one video. Anything really, I think is, um, so much easier and you can build on that.

[00:38:37] Then you can build, uh, as you go, you know, and as you get more questions and, you know, be able to, yeah. But I, I, I just think it’s all like a, a great experiment. Like, and I think that course I’m not a fan because people don’t get it launched and then when they do, if you did, I don’t know if you would see what you wanted to see from it.

[00:38:58] Um, I know people have successful courses, but I just don’t think that it’s realistic for somebody who’s a service provider who is busy all day long serving clients, you know, to, to be able to kind of pull off this, this like huge big course. Yeah. And I think it also like it the price point of that, you know, there’s no middle ground, right?

[00:39:19] It’s like the price point of that course and then working with you one-on-one, where is the, you know, there’s, there’s nothing for another group of people that I think is important. Exactly. To serve. But anyway, yeah.

[00:39:31] Emily: Yes. Yeah. No, I, yeah, and, and I think so much of it, so much of developing a digital project is just, is literally just doing it too.

[00:39:39] Mm-hmm. Like just sitting down and it’s amazing what can happen when you just sit down and just start mm-hmm. Yes. Like mm-hmm. Go sign up for the platform. Mm-hmm. Write down who your audience is, write down what their, their problem is and figure, you know, yes. Just start. Mm-hmm. That’s like the hardest part.

[00:39:57] Rene: I’ve been working with a, um, with [00:40:00] a, a case study client now, and we’re, we’ve been looking at a lot of these platforms, so I’ve been signing up for a lot of these platforms and making videos for her. Like, okay, well this is how this one works and this is what this one offers. And I’ve been thinking myself of doing some workshops or YouTube lives or something about, Hey, today we’re gonna look, we’re gonna look at Gumroad.

[00:40:18] Like what is it all about? Let’s dive into an account. Here’s how to create a product. Like I feel like it might. I think that like signing up for the platform is a, can be intimidating. Yeah. And maybe just watching somebody else do it and kinda like, oh, okay, well it’s not that hard. Like you’re, you’re kind of showing people, I don’t know, it’s, I’m just kind of toying around with that, you know, it’s like, Hey, today we’re gonna do brilliant Lemon Squeezy.

[00:40:43] Like, here’s another one. Like there’s, you know, there’s a ton of them out there, um, and all the course platforms and what they can do and what.

[00:40:49] Emily: I dunno, it sounds daunting, but most of these, it takes two minutes. Mm-hmm. You know, two minutes to sign up for. Um, so.

[00:40:55] Rene: Yeah. And once you find all the features and what exactly you’re looking for, you know, it’s, you know, it’s, it’s just like anything, there’s a learning curve and I think like, you know, maybe having somebody kind of show you around, like you mentioned, you know, having somebody like and hold you accountable too.

[00:41:09] I think that’s really, really powerful.

[00:41:10] Emily: Yeah. Huge. Yay. Yeah.

[00:41:12] Rene: Okay. Yeah. Well, thank you so much. So tell people, uh, where they can find you. Where do you want people to go to find you?

[00:41:18] Emily: Oh, well, you can really find me on, on Instagram mostly pretty much every day. I, I do a lot of Instagram stories and I do a lot of Mailchimp tips and tricks.

[00:41:28] Rene: Oh, awesome.

[00:41:28] Emily: Reels. Um, so on Instagram, I’m emilyryanlikes. Like, likes your photo. Mm-hmm. So emilyryanlikes, and then on Twitter, I’m emilyryantweets. Um, nice. So yeah, I’m on, I’m on social a lot and um, our website for our agency is Westfield Creative. It’s westfield-creative.com. Um, if you need, if you need Mailchimp help, um, yeah, so thank you.

[00:41:52] Rene: And I’ll put all those links in the notes and the places so people can click on them. But thank you so much for being on the show today.

[00:41:58] Emily: Yes, no, super [00:42:00] fun. And now I’m like, oh gosh, this like so much I wanna do, um, we’ll talk. Yeah. Well, thank you so much. Um, great.

[00:42:08] Rene: Awesome. Thank you. Okay. Talk soon.

[00:42:09] Hey, thanks for listening. I’d love to continue the conversation in your inbox. Email SUBSCRIBE to hey@yfdp.show or sign up in the show notes to get bimonthly emails about how you can create, launch, and market your first digital product. Can’t wait to see you there.