Episode 28

Finding success in a second digital product with Sara Dunn

Sara saw so many wedding professionals blogging incorrectly, so she created a product — a blogging guide. The guide wasn’t overly successful because it wasn’t a solution to an important problem in the eyes of her audience. Learn how she created her next product based on actual feedback, how it fits into her service offerings and how she’s still able to use her first product.

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Sara Dunn is a Wedding SEO Specialist for wedding planners, photographers, venues, and other wedding professionals who want their websites to rank higher on Google.

With a knack for making SEO easy to understand, she’s created a unique Wedding SEO Framework that simplifies what it takes to get a wedding business in front of dream clients.

Sara has been featured by Honeybook, Special Events, and NACE. She was named a WeddingPro educator for 2022 and has presented to audiences including WeddingPro, WIPA, Wedding MBA, and Two Bright Lights.

You can learn more about Sara at saradoesseo.com, follow her on Instagram and TikTok and check out her product, 1-Hour SEO.

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[00:00:00] Rene: Hey everyone. Welcome to Your First Digital Product, a show that helps maxed-out service providers create their first digital product so they can gain an additional income stream, grow their impact without increasing one-on-one work and experience more time freedom. On the show, I talk to business owners who have launched digital products and dig deep into how you can create, launch, and market your first digital product. I’m your host, Rene Morozowich. Let’s go.

[00:00:28] Hey everyone. Today I’m here with Sara Dunn, and Sara is a wedding SEO specialist for wedding planners, photographers, venues, and other wedding professionals who want their websites to rank higher on Google. Hey, Sara, how are you?

[00:00:42] Sara: Hey, I’m doing great, Rene. Thanks so much for having me.

[00:00:45] Rene: Yay. I’m excited to talk about your products and all the things and everything. So why don’t you give us a little background on you.

[00:00:54] Sara: Well, I am happy to, um, you and I met through WordPress many years ago. Mm-hmm. So my original work and business was in WordPress web development, and in 2017 I actually started doing more SEO work. I decided that I wanted to focus on SEO and I had a really special wedding industry client who got me in the door working with wedding planners, photographers, venues, florists, those kinds of businesses that serve engaged couples on their wedding day. And I just discovered that this was a market that didn’t have very good SEO help. Mm-hmm. And so since 2017, I have had my focus niche business called Sara Does SEO, where I help wedding businesses show up on Google.

[00:01:43] And now that is my full focus, um, all the time is wedding SEO work.

[00:01:50] Rene: Yeah, it’s awesome. And I follow you on Instagram and I see you doing all the things and going to all the conferences and you know, I, you’re doing amazing so that’s very cool. And I [00:02:00] know you have a product now, but let’s take a quick step back because your first product is not the product you have out now.

[00:02:05] So tell us about your first product and what it was, and who it served and all that good stuff.

[00:02:11] Sara: Well, it’s so fun that you’re asking these questions because I’ve, I’ve never talked about my very first digital product before, and I really started thinking about it more in preparation for this conversation.

[00:02:23] Okay. What was my very first one that I did? Why did I do it? What happened? So I figured out that the very first thing that I ever put online for sale as a passive income digital product was my wedding blog SEO, step-by-step guide. So basically this was a PDF that taught my process for how I did a blog.

[00:02:48] That’s a really specific type of blog that works really well to help wedding professionals get found on Google. And I was like, this is a process people need. I’m gonna write it all down, have it designed as a really nice PDF, and I’m sure it’s something that people would want to buy if maybe they didn’t want to hire me directly for services or they wanted to try a piece of this themselves.

[00:03:11] I feel like this is the right thing that they should buy instead. Mm-hmm. So it was my wedding blogging guide.

[00:03:17] Rene: Nice. Okay. So it just walked them through the process. So PDF, they get the PDF, it’s like a workbook. Are they filling in? There’s like questions that they’re filling in and like how, how does it work?

[00:03:28] Sara: Not exactly. Okay. It, it was really more of like instructions. Okay. So it was a written PDF of instructions and I think there were like maybe five major steps in the process. I actually recorded a few Loom videos mm-hmm as part of it too. And so within the PDF people could click a button to watch me do the step.

[00:03:47] Nice. So it was kind of like a PDF download, but also it had elements of, um, online mini training. Because what I was trying to do was actually teach a process. Okay. Like [00:04:00] most wedding pros, when they do a real wedding, they generally write a blog post about that wedding on their blog. So, uh, Bob and Pat got married, and this is what happened.

[00:04:12] Here’s where they got ready. This is what their ceremony looked like. This is where the reception was. Here are some details about the decor and the florals and what was important, and if you would like a wedding like this, you should hire me as your planner or your photographer. Mm-hmm. Or come to our venue.

[00:04:30] So that’s the purpose of this kind of blog post, but there’s a really specific way to optimize a piece of content like that if you want it to get found on Google. And I had kind of developed a process that I followed every single time that worked really well for my clients. So I was trying to empower people with process if they were gonna spend time creating content anyway, I wanted them to create it the right way so that it was actually going to get them results and bring them traffic and not waste time.

[00:05:01] Right. So when I looked at like the problem and the overall market problem, what I saw was wedding professionals were wasting time writing these big blog posts in a way that Google was not going to like them. Mm-hmm. They weren’t optimized for a keyword that people would actually be searching for. And so looking from the outside, I was like, I want to save them, I want to mm-hmm tell them the process that I’ve found that actually works so that they can do this instead. Every single time they’re gonna spend the time to create content like that and, right. That was kind of the reason I created it and my hope for it.

[00:05:40] Rene: Mm-hmm. So then what happened with it? Like what? Yeah, tell us.

[00:05:45] Sara: I think it’s really easy as a digital product creator to think that you put something on your website and you write a description of it and you tell people how it will help them, and that people will just go to your website and buy [00:06:00] it.

[00:06:00] Rene: Yeah, that’s, that’s exactly what everybody thinks.

[00:06:04] Sara: Like it’s there and people are visiting my website. Yes. So obviously while they’re there, they’re gonna check out and they’re gonna buy this thing and take it home with them.

[00:06:12] Rene: Yep.

[00:06:13] Sara: And I found that without more active marketing of the product, there really wasn’t a lot of excitement about it.

[00:06:23] Mm-hmm. It was like people came to my website for advice or, um, they were looking for services, but no one necessarily came to my website looking to buy a PDF of a mini training. Mm-hmm. Um, so I think I sold maybe like three or four of them. Mm-hmm. Over six months. So I mean, it was not flying off the shelves, it was still exciting mailbox money.

[00:06:47] I was selling it for around a hundred dollars. Yes. Yeah. And I mean, when those four email notifications came in, I was like, this is awesome. Yes. Um, of course, like one of the people who bought it was a friend of mine who I helped out for free and she was like, you know, this is a great guide. I should really buy it.

[00:07:06] And so she went and bought it, so it wasn’t even like cold traffic. Yes. In people who come to your website and don’t even know who you are, and then go through the process of buying something. Most of the time people knew me for some reason and, um, decided to pick up the blogging guide because of our relationship and connection.

[00:07:26] Mm-hmm. So it certainly didn’t sell like I hoped it would.

[00:07:32] Rene: So why do you think, was it that, like they didn’t identify the problem? Like are, were, they were saying like, well, I’m writing blog posts, so I’m good. Like, and you were saying you’re writing blog posts, but they’re not the right way.

[00:07:46] But they didn’t recognize that as a problem. Like, do you think that that has something to do with it?

[00:07:52] Sara: Yeah, I think the, I think the biggest problem with this first digital product was it wasn’t anything anyone was asking me for. [00:08:00] Mm mm-hmm. It was like, here, I wanna save you. I think you need this. Mm-hmm.

[00:08:05] But it wasn’t something where there was audience interest, where people were like, please teach me how to blog. It was just, I am so tired of seeing you all blog wrong, so let me try to fix this for you.

[00:08:18] Rene: Yes. Okay.

[00:08:19] Sara: And so I created a product that I think that people weren’t even very interested in. Mm-hmm.

[00:08:25] Because I created it for my own purposes. Mm-hmm. Not because it was a need that they identified in themselves. Mm-hmm. I think the other thing was that the sales page for it wasn’t very compelling. It was very much features driven. Mm-hmm. So, um, you know, it was a couple sentences about like, If, if you want to blog to get found on Google, you need to do it right.

[00:08:49] And like that was about it. Mm-hmm. And then it was like, I’ll teach you A, B, C, D, and E. And I’ve since learned a lot more about sales page copy in the way that a sales page needs to be written to really identify the problem first, and make sure that people understand that problem and see if they identify with that problem.

[00:09:09] Mm-hmm. Before you then move forward with showing them that you have the solution. Right. And I didn’t have those skills necessarily to write a sales page that really guided the right person toward the purchase. It was just like, of course you wanna buy this. It’s great. Here’s a little bit about it. And the checkout button.

[00:09:29] Yes. And I think that the information was not, juicy enough. Mm-hmm. It wasn’t interesting enough. And again, it wasn’t necessarily a problem that people identified that they needed to solve, and were actively looking for a solution.

[00:09:44] Rene: Right. Yeah. That, that makes total sense. When people come to the site, you, you really just have seconds, you know, just to kind of capture them right away.

[00:09:52] So if it doesn’t do that right away, they’re, they’re not gonna read the whole thing and then decide not to buy it. They’re just not going to read it at all. [00:10:00] So I think that you, you really just have to, to capture people. Yeah. And the sales page thing is, it’s its own thing all together. So creating the product, but then yeah, creating that compelling, the, the sales page and then any marketing that surrounds your product, I think is, um, you know, can make or break the product.

[00:10:18] Sara: I agree. You gotta make it enticing. Yes. Something people understand. Mm-hmm. Why they need it. Mm-hmm.

[00:10:24] Rene: And understand quickly. Yeah. Why they need it, like right away. Yeah. That makes sense. So what happened with it? You still have it. Do you use it? Did you, so you just kind of moved away from it. So tell us then from there, what happened?

[00:10:37] Sara: So the product’s actually still on my website though, I definitely decreased the prominence of what I used to have. I used to have a shop page in my main menu. Mm-hmm. It literally had two products in it, so it was not necessarily a shop. Um, so I’ve kind of moved away from actively marketing it, but I’ve still found a lot of value in having it on my website because I’ve actually offered it as a free bonus option in a few cases. So I’ve done things like speak at summits or participate in bundles. And for both of those things, the goal is really to increase your audience and your reach and get people on your email list. And when people organize a summit or a bundle, they’re generally looking for the participants to provide something of value.

[00:11:25] To give the overall bundle more value. Mm-hmm. So I give a $97 product. You give one, and so do 30 other people, and we all sell it together for 97 and it’s a huge value. Mm-hmm. And then what is the benefit for everyone is when it sells, you actually get the email addresses of people who have downloaded your item and so, oh, awesome.

[00:11:48] I have really found great value to giving this wedding blog guide, um, for free for some of these bundles. And it’s been a great way to grow my email [00:12:00] list toward more people that have signed up for full services or my course that I offer. So it’s become kind of this nice bonus to have and that’s why it still lives on my site.

[00:12:10] Mm-hmm. Is that it’s a great way that I can contribute to other.

[00:12:15] Rene: Yeah. That’s awesome. So I love that repurposing, like maybe the original intent of like, everybody’s just gonna buy it didn’t come true, but it’s, it’s not for, not, like you can still use it for other things and, um, I’ve heard some people too kind of morph their, their product into something else or make it part of something else. But yeah, like you said, the bundle or, um, I, I like that sort of kind of grouping, like, here’s some added value because it’s still valuable, it’s still a valuable product. It just kind of presented in a different way, I think. Mm-hmm. Awesome. Cool. So is the other product you had on your shop, the product that you have on your site now?

[00:12:50] Sara: Yes.

[00:12:51] Rene: Okay, so tell us about that one.

[00:12:53] Sara: So here’s the product that I have now. It’s called One Hour SEO, and it is a mini training, much more than a PDF. So my old product was more like PDF download.

[00:13:05] Um, one hour SEO is a three video mini training on how a wedding professional can get started with SEO. And what’s interesting about this product coming to be was that it actually came out of survey responses. So I did an audience survey. I wanna say it was probably like 2019. So end of the year I just sent out a survey with like five basic questions, trying to help myself understand my audience better.

[00:13:33] And what they were looking for. So asking things like, what’s your biggest challenge when it comes to SEO, or what do you find most intimidating, or how are you marketing your business right now? Just to get some more ideas about where they were. And one of the things that I identified as a theme in the responses, especially to what’s your biggest challenge with SEO, is, I don’t know how to get started.

[00:13:57] Mm-hmm. Okay. I was like, [00:14:00] Okay. Mm-hmm. Like, that makes sense. And I can also see how that could happen. You know, you’re like, Hey, I wanna rank higher on Google. And you go to Google and start reading articles and there’s, I mean, there’s articles on alt text. Yeah. And you’re like, is, is that most important? And then there’s an article on, on meta descriptions, and you’re like, is that what I should care about?

[00:14:18] And then there’s an article about content SEO, and you’re like, okay, is this the thing? Mm-hmm. And so from a business owner’s perspective, I was like, that is a big problem, and maybe not one that I would’ve thought of. Mm-hmm. But yes, people wanna know what is their most important first step? What are the fastest wins?

[00:14:36] Where do they get started? And I was like, I can make a training about that. I know exactly where they should get started. They should optimize their homepage and they should do that based on actual keyword research. And so, came up with One Hour SEO, I think I called it something else to start with.

[00:14:54] It didn’t come out the way that it has ended. It’s taken some iteration. Um, but One Hour SEO is now my three video training about how to get started with SEO and it’s a lot less clear as far as the features, like what exactly am I teaching, but so much more clear about the benefit.

[00:15:15] The benefit is you know exactly where to get started with SEO and you can get it finished in an hour or less. Mm-hmm. So for the buyer, that’s a much more compelling first offer, and it actually addresses a common concern they actually have. So it’s not me saying, you all are doing this wrong. Here’s how to fix it.

[00:15:35] Mm-hmm. It’s them being like, oh, this does totally resonate with the problem I’ve been having. And it’s so much more compelling, I think. And so One Hour SEO has been much more successful for me as far as passive income and is definitely the place that I send people first if they wanna learn something to get started.

[00:15:55] Rene: Right. Right. And I think a lot of times, you know, the work that we [00:16:00] do we’re, we’ve been doing it and we do it a lot of times for a lot of people and we’re kind of like way over here and we forget that there are people like way back here. I taught a class, um, a couple years ago and it was just a, you know, four, four days, two hours per day. How to build a website and the last class was, I’d just like to introduce like, here’s a little bit about SEO, a little bit about email marketing, a little bit about analytics.

[00:16:24] And so I talked for like 15 minutes about SEO, you know, just like maybe the top three things. And at the end, uh, one person asked, what is SEO? And I was like, oh, no. Like I, I didn’t meet them where they were. I started from where I was in maybe a little bit behind. So it’s, you know, yeah, definitely taking into account what your audience is asking for.

[00:16:47] And if they’re asking like, that seems like the easiest route. If they’re already asking for something like, here, here’s what you wanted, or, you know, like it’s, you have buyers lined up. Um, so was it your email list that you sent that question out to? Or how Yeah. Okay.

[00:17:02] Sara: Yes. Yeah. So I love an audience survey.

[00:17:05] It was a business coach that told me to do it, and it was super valuable. I don’t know how, I didn’t get a ton of responses on the first one, but each one is so valuable. Even if you only get 10, you can still identify commonalities mm-hmm in those responses. Right. And so it was a pretty fast survey and I offered, um, I think some prizes, like Starbucks gift cards.

[00:17:28] Rene: Oh, nice.

[00:17:28] Sara: Mm-hmm. Um, to a couple people who, I think it was two Starbucks gift cards. Mm-hmm. And then just chose random winners. Nice. So there was a little bit of something in it for them too.

[00:17:36] Rene: Yeah. And do you ever post surveys on social media? Just, just as a question, like in your stories or things like that? Okay. Yeah. Just curious if that’s another avenue. I’ve heard from some people that you wanna be careful where you ask for feedback. Just because you’re not sure where you’re gonna get, like if you can kind of keep it to a more core group, but you know, maybe followers are okay to to ask.

[00:17:58] So do you have to use like the [00:18:00] little polls and and stuff in Instagram that they could just click on the buttons? Or do you. Okay. Like they don’t even have to leave the app.

[00:18:07] Sara: Yeah, that’s, that’s a super fun strategy. If you want like a quick answer too, would you be more interested in A or B? Hmm. Though I think you still have to be a little bit careful about that because, you know, it’s your friends and family members that are probably most engaged in your social media.

[00:18:23] So, yes. You know, my, my parents really like responding to my polls and questions stickers, so make sure to pull those out when you’re looking for themes.

[00:18:32] Rene: Yes. Excellent point. Yes, very good point. Nice. Okay, so how, how do you use the One Hour SEO? You know, so people find you, they learn about you somewhere, they, they Google and you come up, or you know, a friend tells them or something like that.

[00:18:46] So then they come to your website and then what is the, what’s the path that they take and what is your intended path that they take? Um, if those are maybe different.

[00:18:57] Sara: Yeah, so there’s two primary ways that I’ve really tried to market One Hour SEO. So rather than just put a shop link in the heading of a website, which I totally think can work, just didn’t work for me in my first case.

[00:19:10] Mm-hmm. I was like, I need to market this in a more active way so that people always know if they want to take a first step with me, this is the one. Mm-hmm. And this is actually a product that I’ve used effectively for a self-liquidating offer for Facebook ads, and for anyone who’s never heard of a self-liquidating offer.

[00:19:30] Rene: Yeah, like I don’t know what any of that is. I hope she tells me.

[00:19:33] Sara: Um, so basically the idea is that you sell a low dollar product directly with a Facebook ad, and you sell enough of them to make back your investment in the ads. So essentially you’re increasing the size of your audience for $0 because enough people buy your small product immediately.

[00:19:53] So, Um, I found in the last year or so, I haven’t had as much luck with this. I also haven’t put as much [00:20:00] effort into mm-hmm adjusting the messaging on the ads. I’m just trying to run the same ones that worked really well in like 2021. Yeah. Which is probably not a great strategy. Mm-hmm. Um, but it did for a while, work really well to run ad traffic directly to this page, and the product itself is $37.

[00:20:17] So, I’m not asking them for, you know, the whole bank. I’m not trying to sell them on a high level service. It’s like, Hey, if this resonates, you wanna get started with SEO $37 product and it’s great, it’s ready to go. Mm-hmm. And so a lot of people, cold traffic would actually buy this product and then I would get them into my ecosystem, my email list, and some of the other things that I do and offer.

[00:20:43] Mm-hmm. So running Facebook ads directly to this has definitely worked in the past. Um, the other thing that I have done is to strategically add this to my welcome series. So when someone signs up for my email list, they get a series of emails that introduces them to SEO and what it means, and then occasionally it sells them softly on mm-hmm possibly signing up for One Hour SEO. It’s another great way to convert someone from an email subscriber into an actual purchaser. Mm-hmm. And get them a little bit farther in. So that’s been really effective too. Um, making sure to bring it up when people have just met me through my welcome series.

[00:21:26] Rene: So for the welcome series, I know you have on your site the a pricing guide. So you don’t have pricing on your website. You have, it’s behind that. Is that how people are getting on the list or are people getting on the list in another way? Like they just wanna get emails from you? Like, is, is there a difference between the two?

[00:21:45] Sara: So I have three different opt-ins. Okay. That would bring people onto my list. So, um, I have an SEO basics guide, and that’s linked in the sidebar of all of my blog posts. I have my welcome and pricing guide, so that is when people are [00:22:00] interested in services, they sign up and they receive the guide. Um, and then my series of emails.

[00:22:05] And then I also have a wedding blog post template. So it kind of guides them in some questions on how to come up with content for this kind of blog post they write all the time. Nice. And I link that in all of my content that’s about blogging. Mm-hmm. So all three of those things are driving people into the welcome series.

[00:22:25] And then the welcome series’s job is to convert those people into one hour SEO purchasers. Mm-hmm.

[00:22:30] Rene: So that, that was my next question. So that’s the main goal is for them to take that step, not like work with you or, uh, other higher packages that you offer just to get them to that step.

[00:22:42] Sara: We have a few different paths, okay.

[00:22:45] That people can take in the welcome series. Um, and I can’t take credit for it. I hired a woman named Allie who did an amazing job on this welcome series. Um, but it’s the first ask we make of actually like selling to people is One Hour SEO. And then if they stay on the list and they keep going through the series, they will also get pitched on my lowest level done for you service. Okay. They’ll get introduced to a few things, but when she originally wrote it and created it, its main goal mm-hmm was to sell One Hour SEO.

[00:23:15] Rene: Okay. And then, so what happens when they do buy? Then you have some kind of nurturing there to get them to do the next thing. Yes. Like the second step.

[00:23:25] Sara: Okay. Yes. And, and I’m, I’m afraid if someone’s never done a digital product before, they’re gonna listen to all this and be like, it’s too much to create a digital product and like a welcome series for it and run Facebook ads. So I want someone who’s listening to know that like, all of this has been developed over like six years now of, uh, working with this market and I just add like a little bit of extra something every single year. So just this year actually, um, I created an automated sequence that sends to people 30 days after they buy [00:24:00] One Hour SEO that upsells them into my full SEO course. So basically it’s like, you know, you’ve gotten your feet wet, you’ve given SEO a try, you’ve done step one.

[00:24:11] Are you ready to take it to the next level? Mm-hmm. And then it introduces them to Wedding SEO Bootcamp, which is a higher dollar course, and it gives them a limited time offer to join.

[00:24:22] Rene: Nice. Yes, I do. Yes. It is good that you mentioned that because I’m just like, how does it all work? How does this map out?

[00:24:27] Uh, but yes, for the audience first product, dialing it back, um, yeah, adding these things over time. But I think it is important to think about the path that people are taking. So how you’re getting them in there so that, that sort of marketing piece. Um, and then, yeah, you don’t have to have it right away, but then what do you want them to do next?

[00:24:47] So always giving people, um, an option on, you know, do this thing and then you can do this later. Guiding people through, because people are just gonna bail if you don’t give them something, um, they’re just gonna drop off because, you know, I think we have decision fatigue, so many decisions. Just tell me what, you know, tell me what’s next. Yeah.

[00:25:06] Sara: And then thinking about that journey, that buyer’s journey toward working with you. You know, I realized it wasn’t come to my website and buy my full process for blogging. Mm-hmm. That didn’t work. That wasn’t a journey that people were interested in.

[00:25:21] Mm-hmm. So now I’m trying to think a little bit more about what do they actually want in each step of their process. And it’s not the same for everyone either. Mm-hmm. You know, maybe we bring ’em in with One Hour SEO. Some people are like, okay, I wanna keep DIYing this. Mm-hmm. And other people are like, okay, now I at least get SEO at a basic level.

[00:25:40] Mm-hmm. And I’d really like you to now do the rest of it for me. Right, right. So it has certainly worked in both ways. Mm-hmm. But. I’ve read some sales psychology that it’s really helpful to get people to buy something small from you and then they’re more likely to make the next investment. Mm-hmm. So that’s another reason that a small [00:26:00] product or digital product can be really useful.

[00:26:02] It gets them in the door. And gives them that sense of working with you and the quality that you provide.

[00:26:08] Rene: Mm-hmm. Yes, definitely. Yeah, I totally agree. So I just wanted to ask about if you’re still doing the Lunch and Learns. I know you were doing those before and how those kind of fit into this.

[00:26:19] Sara: I love lunch and learns. So I’ve been doing monthly SEO, lunch and learns since 2018.

[00:26:25] Rene: Wow.

[00:26:26] Sara: So almost every single month. I’ve done over 40 lunch and learns now. And I don’t know if I really think about them as far as like where they fit in this buyer’s journey or strategy. Because I’ve just always wanted to make myself available to people to learn something small and actionable about SEO if they want to.

[00:26:46] Mm-hmm. And also have an opportunity to ask me questions if mm-hmm they’ve been hearing some SEO advice they’re not sure about, or they just have an SEO question they wanna ask. That was kind of the point of lunch and learn. Okay. Um, it gives people an opportunity every single month to get access to SEO help.

[00:27:04] Mm-hmm. I love them. And one of the things that’s special about lunch and learn is I don’t pitch anything on lunch and learn. It is just teaching and question answering. And I think that’s kind of a, a rare offering online these days. Mm-hmm. Like if you go to a training or a webinar, there’s almost always something.

[00:27:21] Rene: Oh, a hundred percent.

[00:27:22] Sara: Someone’s going to sell you at the end. Yes. And so to actually get to show up for 30 minutes and learn and then the host is just like, I hope that was awesome and that you have a great day and you’re like where’s the pitch? Yeah. Where is it? Yes.

[00:27:35] Rene: Yes. So do you find a lot of people repeat those or are you getting new people coming in?

[00:27:40] Oh, like do people join your list? Like kind of, I guess even if you’re not pitching them something like what happens? How did they get there? And then what did they do with you afterwards?

[00:27:49] Sara: Well, they do have to join my email list. Okay. To get access to lunch and learn. So they do go through that welcome sequence and they have the opportunity to buy One Hour SEO mm-hmm or the [00:28:00] SEO fix. So there’s definitely benefit to that. But I have tons of people that have come to lunch and learn for, for years and never bought anything, and that’s great. Mm-hmm. I have past students and clients who still stay connected by coming to lunch and learn. Mm-hmm. So that’s really fun.

[00:28:14] So it’s kind of just like community building and Mm. I don’t know. I just, I love doing lunch and learn even without necessarily like a super strong strategy around it.

[00:28:26] Rene: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I think that’s important too. Like, you know, this, I don’t think it’s all all about strategy, you know? I think it’s about following the thing that you’re interested in.

[00:28:34] Like, I’m really interested in doing this. I just like to do it. And I think when that happens, you show up. I don’t wanna say differently, but you show up in, in a way that’s like even more authentic. Mm-hmm. You know, people can really see that you’re really jazzed about this, and they’re like, yeah, okay, this is good.

[00:28:49] Where, you know, you’re interested in the topic, you’re glad to be doing the thing you’re doing. I think people can really pick up on that. So yeah, I’m a, I’m a proponent of that. Yeah. Did you say the SEO fix?

[00:29:00] Sara: That’s my, that’s entry level done for you service.

[00:29:02] Okay. Okay. It, it’s the one that gets pitched as part of my welcome series. Okay. So for those people that don’t want a DIY, that’s the service they can choose.

[00:29:12] Rene: Okay. Okay. I don’t know if we had talked about this at one point or um, your audience is yes, made up of people in the wedding industry, but it can vary greatly from like the florist to the venue.

[00:29:26] So you have, you know, there’s a quite a spectrum I think, of people and maybe what they can afford mm-hmm to invest. So, you know, you’re offering solutions to meet all of those people where they are, you know, whether it’s done for you or, you know, showing them how DIY or, or things like that.

[00:29:44] Sara: Yes, definitely. So it’s definitely something that’s happened over time that I’ve added different products and services at different price points.

[00:29:52] So I started as just doing high level done for you SEO services, and [00:30:00] then I discovered that some people didn’t wanna pay for it. They actually wanted to learn. So I came up with a course, a mini training, a workshop. Then I realized I needed something in between DIY and we do it all for you. So we came up with an SEO setup product.

[00:30:17] Mm-hmm. Um, there really is something at, for people in the wedding industry, at all budgets, at all stages of their business, whether they’re brand new or they’ve been around for 15 years. Um, I’ve tried to make sure if people in the wedding industry wanna show up on Google, there’s something they can afford to make a step toward that.

[00:30:37] Rene: Mm-hmm. Yeah, I like that. I like that. And the, did you talk about the bootcamp? You have a bootcamp too, that’s kind of like a training.

[00:30:44] Sara: Yeah, so bootcamp is my signature course. Okay. So it is a four module course. I teach it live two times a year and the rest of the year it’s kind of open for purchase if people go through one of my sequences.

[00:30:58] But it’s awesome. It teaches wedding professionals how to do their own SEO and for those who go through during, when I teach live, they’re doing it with a group of other people who are all asking questions they can benefit from. Mm-hmm. So that is a super fun offering that I have too.

[00:31:15] Rene: So when you, so you do it live and then when it’s not live, they, are they buying what you just recorded?

[00:31:23] Sara: No, I have recorded lessons for everything. Okay. Okay. So even when they’re doing it live, they’ll watch the videos and then we come together for Q&A. Okay, so the course is recorded, but they’re moving through it as a group and I do a Q&A session for every single module so that they can get questions answered as they move forward.

[00:31:42] Rene: Nice.

[00:31:42] Awesome. Okay, cool. Nice. Yeah, just good to, like, I just, I’m interested in like the different permutations of like how, how people can kind of do some different things and I think that everybody’s interested in different things as well. Some people are really into the trainings, like you mentioned, the lunch and learn, like kind of just showing up and being present.

[00:31:59] I [00:32:00] don’t, I don’t necessarily think that the end goal for everybody is to just have these products that kind of sell. Like I think people still want to be engaged with their audience, you know, whether it’s their peers or potential clients. I think people wanna show up in a way that is interesting to them and then they also can, you know, as time allows.

[00:32:19] Sara: Yeah.

[00:32:20] Rene: Things like that. Yeah. Cool. Okay, so anything else that we didn’t touch on? Oh, I wanted to ask about the community, because you mentioned, you know, the lunch and learn kind of community. So do you have a, another community somewhere? Some people have like Facebook groups, it just, no. Is the email list really the community?

[00:32:37] Sara: Yeah. And the people who come to lunch and learn every single month, like, I’ve got my regulars. They’re always there. They’re always pumped to be there. So to me, that’s what I mean by my community. Mm-hmm. I decided a long time ago, I’ll never have a free Facebook group. Mm-hmm. Because SEO questions are complicated.

[00:32:53] Mm-hmm. And, um, It’s hard to serve everyone well when they can ask you all sorts of questions anytime of the day and they want an immediate answer.

[00:33:04] Rene: Yes, yes. I can’t imagine. But yes, it’s just good to mention, and I think some people who have had communities are also, uh, shutting those down. Like, okay, we’re are not gonna do that or are gonna do that a different way now. Um, I still think that building the community is important, but yeah, maybe not in that same way that we’re mm-hmm traditionally used to, you know, hearing like the Facebook group. Right. I’m not a fan.

[00:33:24] Sara: Yeah. Mm-hmm. No, thanks.

[00:33:26] Rene: So, any other things? Do you have any, any other thoughts? Anything we didn’t touch on that you think might be important? Do you have any thoughts about going forward, like, you know, what you may do differently or really anything?

[00:33:39] Anything else?

[00:33:41] Sara: I think I’ve had a pull toward maybe making more digital products and I’m trying to keep myself focused cuz I still think there’s so many things I could be doing to better market the one digital product I have. Mm-hmm. The One Hour SEO. And so to me that’s what I’ve chosen to do to grow and [00:34:00] scale, not make a bunch more products. Mm-hmm. But spend more time and effort trying to reach people and make sure they know about the product I already have. So that’s what’s coming next for me.

[00:34:10] Just more marketing effort to the same product and making sure that it serves people well.

[00:34:14] Rene: Nice. And do you, do you iterate on that product at all? Like, do you redo it after a certain amount of time? Like re just revisit? You know, sometimes we do something and then we don’t look at it for a while. Like, oh wait, what is that actually saying?

[00:34:28] Especially with videos, do you have a process for kind of going back, you know, periodically or, or not?

[00:34:35] Sara: I probably need to, I think it’s probably due for another review. I, there’s already been one full, uh, redevelopment of all the videos in the several years that I’ve had One Hour SEO.

[00:34:45] So I actually rerecorded them to make them simpler and I simplified the workbook.

[00:34:50] Rene: Nice.

[00:34:50] Sara: That goes along with it. I’m a big fan of you don’t have to add new things to a product mm-hmm to make it better. Sometimes it’s actually better if you take things out mm-hmm so that people can get to the outcome faster.

[00:35:04] I think it might be time for another simplification of the product. I think there’s more things I could simplify from here.

[00:35:11] Rene: I think it, like you said, getting people to, to where they want to be, um, is so important because I think when we’re thinking of creating something, we’re like, well, I’ll give them everything I know. Exactly. And all that does is overwhelm people.

[00:35:26] Sara: Yes.

[00:35:26] Rene: And so they’re just gonna turn off and they’re not gonna get anything. Getting somebody actually somewhere and then, yeah, later you can get them somewhere else if, if they want to go somewhere else. But yeah, I think that’s, it’s something that people don’t think enough of like, let’s just take one step.

[00:35:43] You don’t have to take people 50 steps, just, you know, just a little bit. Little bit.

[00:35:48] Sara: I agree.

[00:35:49] Rene: Oh yeah. Cool. Okay, so just to kind of recap, and we may or may not have talked about these things, but what two or three things you recommend for someone who’s creating their first product? [00:36:00]

[00:36:00] Sara: So I would definitely try to listen to your audience.

[00:36:04] Is there something that you hear people asking you for? Um, I, I’m not sure it works to just say, this is what I wish they all knew because if they don’t identify that as a problem, if that’s not a problem they actually want to solve, then you’re not gonna be able to sell them a product to solve it. So I think a better way to go at it is if you have an email list, send out a survey asking about their challenges or in some way try to listen really well to what you’re actually being asked for.

[00:36:35] That is something that I would recommend as a step one for anyone creating their first digital product. And then just remember that you need to actively market it. It’s not something you just put on a website and everyone will be so excited to buy it. You have to keep talking about it. You have to make sure that people know that it exists in different ways, whether that’s an email sequence or if it’s just, you know, you tell people about it if they tell you they can’t afford your services mm-hmm. You let them know you have a digital product that’s another offer. Don’t be afraid to really actively market your digital product because you’re probably going to need to tell people about it a few times before you can get them to buy it.

[00:37:16] Rene: Yes, absolutely. And there are so many people out there, I think we forget, you know, we’ve been talking about it for a certain amount of time, but there are so many people who have not heard of you yet. Yes. And you know, if you stop talking about it, because all of those people maybe have heard, you’re gonna miss the people who just joined your audience or mm-hmm.

[00:37:32] Who haven’t yet, you know, who might tomorrow. So yeah, I think that talking about it is super important. Um, and yes, and validation, definitely. Yay. Cool. Awesome. Thank you so much. So where can people find you online?

[00:37:43] Sara: So for anyone in the wedding industry, if you just wanna check out what I do, um, my website is saradoesseo.com.

[00:37:51] And that’s also my handle on Instagram and TikTok, where I’m the most active. Um, and I would love to connect with you there.

[00:37:58] Rene: Awesome. Great. Thank you so [00:38:00] much for being here. I’m really excited for everybody. I’m always really excited for people to listen to these. I’m like, yes, there’s such good information here.

[00:38:05] And I like to listen to them again later when I’m doing the transcripts. I’m like, oh yeah, and they said that awesome thing. So awesome. I’m excited about it.

[00:38:13] Sara: Oh, thank you so much. I’m so glad we could do this.

[00:38:15] Rene: Hey, thanks for listening. I’d love to continue the conversation in your inbox. Email SUBSCRIBE to hey at yfdp.show or sign up in the show notes to get bimonthly emails about how you can create, launch, and market your first digital product. Can’t wait to see you there.