Episode 64

Gaining clarity for a product by working closely with clients with Yasmine Salem Hamdan

Tune in for a very meta episode! Yasmine shares the story of creating digital products (contract templates for service providers) but also talks about the contracts you need as a service provider and digital product creator.

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Meet Yasmine Salem Hamdan, an award-winning entrepreneur and intellectual property attorney based in Dallas, Texas. She’s the founder of Coachesandcompany.com, where she’s revolutionizing legal protection for entrepreneurs by offering plug-and-play legal solutions and lawyer-created business contracts without the hefty law firm fees. Her innovative approach has helped thousands of entrepreneurs safeguard their businesses and financial futures. Yasmine also hosts The Business of Doing Business Podcast, where she shares bite-sized lessons and invaluable insights, catering to modern entrepreneurs. Her contributions have earned recognition from platforms like Forbes, Entrepreneur Magazine, Thinkific, and Dallas Startup Week.

Yasmine’s mission is to help entrepreneurs everywhere build their own Protected & Profitable businesses in order to create a positive impact on the world & financial independence for themselves.

Links 🔗
FREE Legally Launch Guide
Digital Product Terms & Conditions Contract Template
Coaches & Company on Instagram
Coaches & Company on Threads
Yasmine on LinkedIn
The Business of Doing Business Podcast

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[00:00:00] Yasmine: Don’t shy away from talking with the people that you’re creating this product for. Like that’s a, I would say a basic principle of business and it extends to digital products as well as the, you know, don’t lose touch with your customer. Really get entrenched in their world.

[00:00:16] Get clear on what their needs are, what their struggles are, what solutions they’re looking for, what their preferences are, what their values are. Get clear on all of those things and those that data essentially will help inform your product development and how you’re designing this digital product.

[00:00:35] Rene: Hey everyone. Welcome to Your First Digital Product, a show that helps maxed out service providers create their first digital product so they can gain an additional income stream, grow their impact without increasing one on one work, and experience more time freedom. On the show, I talk to business owners who have launched digital products and dig deep into how you can create, launch, and market your first digital product. I’m your host Rene Morozowich. Let’s go!

[00:01:03] Hey everybody. Today I’m here with Yasmine and she is an award-winning entrepreneur and intellectual property attorney based in Dallas, Texas. She’s the founder of coachesandcompany.com, where she’s revolutionizing legal protection for entrepreneurs by offering plug and play legal solutions, and lawyer created business contracts without the hefty law firm fees.

[00:01:25] Rene: Hey, Yasmine, how are you?

[00:01:27] Yasmine: Hey, Rene. I’m great. Thanks for having me on.

[00:01:30] Rene: Yeah. I’m so excited you’re here today. Do you wanna tell us a little bit more about you?

[00:01:34] Yasmine: Yes, I’d love to share. Thank you. I am, as you mentioned, a, an intellectual property attorney. So I come from the traditional legal world. Um, and a few years ago I launched my own law firm. Um, it was actually close to 10 years ago, but I guess that was a few years ago with the bigger picture, I launched my law firm working with entrepreneurs and small business owners, people who were selling their own services, selling their own products.

[00:01:58] Um, and then a couple years ago, [00:02:00] I really narrowed my focus to digital services and digital products, people who were selling services online. If you, you were marketing, selling and delivering a service online or a digital product online, um, I was supporting those kinds of clients in my law firm and, um.

[00:02:18] After some time found that there was a need for another solution, that not everybody in the first two years of their business was in the position to invest in hiring a law firm or paying for legal services, because of course that’s a business expense, right? And it can be quite expensive for the newer entrepreneur.

[00:02:34] So it became clear that. You know, there was a need for another solution. And so long story short, I founded my current company, which is called Coaches and Company, and we provide access to lawyer created and approved downloadable contract templates that are designed for selling services and digital products online.

[00:02:52] We were founded in 2020. Um, it was actually July, 2020 when we launched. We were working on development when the pandemic hit, and so that was an interesting turn of events. But, you know, we persevered and continued and launched in July and it’s been a fun ride ever since. I mean, I’ve met so many incredible people in this work.

[00:03:13] Um, I’ve seen people build incredible businesses that make a difference in the lives of their clients and in their own lives from a financial standpoint. And so it’s just been a very cool, cool thing to, to be working on, um, you know, at this point in my career. And I’ve just been really, really enjoying it.

[00:03:32] So thank you for having me on to chat. Digital products. Yeah, I love talking digital products.

[00:03:37] Rene: I wish I would’ve known you. Well, at the time I needed contracts. It was 2017, and yeah, I paid a ton of money, a ton of money for contracts that I really didn’t use because I didn’t understand them. And so I felt like every time I had a question, or every time my potential client had a question, I had to then go back to the attorney to say like, okay, they want this, or they [00:04:00] don’t like that.

[00:04:00] Like it. Eventually I just got rid of it and I did replace it with something else. But like it’s so important to have something. Like you have to have something like, don’t, don’t do stuff without contract. So I just wanna ask before we start, so it’s Coaches and Company. Is it just for coaches or like what’s, what does the name Coaches and Company kind of represent, I guess?

[00:04:23] Yasmine: Yes. Yeah, that’s a great question. And I, and I love what you said about having a contract regardless. Like you, you knew I needed a contract, you just weren’t sure how to navigate. Um, you know, is it. Should I go to a lawyer and have these custom contracts created? Should I use a free template I found on the internet or in a Facebook group or in a program I took?

[00:04:44] Um, and so our approach is to, you know, create something that is the best of both worlds, where they’re informed contract templates, um, that are designed for this specific nature of selling a service, selling a program, selling a digital product. Um. But not the legalese. That is confusing. You can’t edit it or navigate it yourself.

[00:05:04] And, and if you couldn’t read and understand it or, you know, make not modifications, your client was probably thinking what is like, I’m just gonna scroll to the bottom and hope for the best, or I’m gonna not want to sign this contract because I don’t know what in the world I’m even signing. So it just was not a great option.

[00:05:20] And, and the reality of the matter was a lot of attorneys also aren’t familiar with the nature of selling services online and selling digital products online. Um, so yeah, I’m, I’m really glad to hear that. And it, you know, reinforces for me too is that this is a great solution because I’ve seen it play out in the businesses and lives of our customers and members of our community.

[00:05:40] And also because I was the attorney that was working with clients and a lot of contracts came across my desk that were created by other lawyers that I’m like, this is not the right fit for this type of business arrangement or transaction. So thank you for that. To answer your question though, where did the name come from?

[00:05:55] So Coaches and Company, um, when we were founded and when I, [00:06:00] um, began to develop the concept of this digital e-Commerce store that sold downloadable contracts that you could just click, you know, in a few clicks, download the contracts, fully customizable. It comes with a user guide. It tells you what all the sections mean and how to customize them.

[00:06:16] And, you know, things that you need to be aware of if you are signing clients or are, you know, doing business online. Um. The common thread that I saw and an industry that I saw emerging was that there was, there were people selling cons, corporate consulting or individual consulting services and personal coaching services.

[00:06:38] And the title of coach or consultant was, um, a title that could be adopted by really any professional that was, that has a, a skillset that they’re wanting to leverage and sell in the form of a paid offer. And so corporate consulting, personal coaching, um, we see courses that has emerged and continue to grow over the last few years.

[00:07:01] Absolutely. But Coaches and Company, um, that was our most popular product and that was the, the most common title that we found across the board with entrepreneurs who were selling these corporate consulting and personal coaching services that were one-to-one. Some also have, you know, it’s not uncommon for a, a professional consultant or coach to have an agency or some sort of done for you type of model.

[00:07:25] Um, I. Alongside the other offers. And then of course, there’s the digital product model as well. So we find that it’s a suite of offers that many people, um, can offer to their audience or, you know, decide to offer to their audience. But coaches and company, you know, it just had a, had a ring to it, I guess.

[00:07:44] Rene: For sure. Yeah, I just was curious if it was just for coaches, so I kind of just wanted to plant that seed in the audience’s mind, so they’re like, oh, I’m not a coach. It doesn’t apply, but it does apply.

[00:07:53] I love what you said about the service providers offering additional services. That’s kind of the point of this podcast [00:08:00] is, yes, you offer one-on-one services, but hey, what if you added a digital product or two to the mix, and how would that affect your business? Would it bring in more leads? Would it give you some more free time, you know, to be able to pursue something outside of work or, you know, anything like that.

[00:08:16] So that’s, I, I love that, that business model, and that’s my like, yay. That’s what I what I preach here.

[00:08:22] Yasmine: Here, I’m here to champion that too. Let me make it clear. I’m here to champion that too. Yes, absolutely. I mean, I think that there’s so much power in a one-to-one offer. Absolutely. And if we’re being honest, I think working one-on-one with an, with your ideal client or the person that you’re creating solutions for, it’s unmatched.

[00:08:39] It’s the best form of market research to be able to see that up close and to really get into, uh, whether you offer something related to business and marketing or operations and administration or health and wellness or relationships and mindset. I mean, whatever it is that you operate within, like working one-on-one with that, your person, that person that you create solutions for, it’s unmatched.

[00:09:03] However, as you mentioned, you know, it requires time and so I like, I I, my ideal situation is a healthy mix of. You know, I have revenue from digital products. Um, maybe you have some sort of, you know, membership, um, community that is also an option that you can add into the mix. And then working with a select number of one-to-one clients to where your, your entire revenue model is not based on one-to-one clients, because that can be a hustle too if every month you’re having to find new clients to work with.

[00:09:34] Um, I feel like it’s more well-rounded and just a healthier model overall to have a good combination of those sources.

[00:09:40] Rene: Yeah, exactly. And if any, in any given month you may think like, oh, this is a perfectly fine arrangement. I’m working one-on-one, I’m working 40 hours a week, or whatever it is, and that may work out fine. But then next month you may find that for whatever reason, you don’t or can’t or you know, don’t want to or, or can’t.

[00:09:59] [00:10:00] Offer that same sort of thing. And then what happens? Your income decreases because you’re not doing that one-on-one engagement. So I do like, you know, yeah. Having some other, I don’t know, eggs, baskets, I’m not sure. Whatever.

[00:10:11] Yasmine: Yeah. Yeah.

[00:10:13] Rene: Anyway. Okay. Um, so do you wanna tell us about your first product, what it was, the audience, the problem it solves?

[00:10:20] Really just kind of dive in wherever and share whatever you would like.

[00:10:25] Yasmine: Yeah, absolutely. Okay. So our products today are legal contract templates. As I mentioned, they’re downloadable contract templates that are designed for service providers, people that sell a service online. These might be, as I mentioned, consultants, coaches, um, agency owners, freelancers, um, they provide some sort of service or you sell a digital product, like a course, a downloadable, uh, an ebook, a template, et cetera.

[00:10:51] Um. I created a, a similar version to Coaches and Company that was for e-Commerce brands prior to this, and that was my first commercialized, um, digital product where I created a standalone brand and sold it for these contracts because I had worked with a lot of e-commerce clients in my law firm at that time.

[00:11:13] Um, and it was just my first go at it. So. I did that, but I wasn’t very excited about it. And there are a number, I won’t, I won’t get into all of the details of that right now, but I wasn’t very excited about it and I didn’t see the, I did not see the demand that I was hoping for. Um, and so I pivoted and ultimately landed in services, which I had worked with a number of people in that it’s in, I think it was essentially me flipping a coin at the time and.

[00:11:41] It was the other side of the coin that I should have gone that, you know, ideally I would’ve flipped to. But we gave e-commerce a go. Um, before we started recording, I, I shared with you my, like, unofficial first digital product

[00:11:55] Rene: I love these

[00:11:55] Yasmine: that I thought of. Yes. That I thought of when I was thinking [00:12:00] about, um, your question in, in, you know, preparation for our talk today.

[00:12:05] Um, and I remembered that actually when I was in college, I was approached by a company. Um, I don’t remember what their, their name was. Maybe it was like Notehall, I wanna say. Um, but maybe something else. But they essentially offered me access to a marketplace to sell my class notes and study guides.

[00:12:25] Yeah. And I remember listing my notes and listing my study guides and making some money, and they would send me like a. Uh, what was it like a debit card with the cash on the card.

[00:12:37] Rene: I love that. That’s awesome.

[00:12:39] Yasmine: I mean, as a college student, like they sent me, you know, 150 bucks on a gift card. I’m like, heck yeah.

[00:12:46] Rene: For things you’re already doing. You already had the notes, right? Like, yeah. That’s awesome.

[00:12:51] Yasmine: It was so good. It was so good. So, yeah, so it was my, technically my first digital product.

[00:12:56] Rene: I like it.

[00:12:57] Yasmine: But yes, I sold my first digital product in 2018.

[00:13:01] Rene: Okay, cool. And so e-commerce, like physical products.

[00:13:05] Yasmine: Mm-Hmm. Yes. E-Commerce. Physical products. Exactly. Exactly.

[00:13:09] Rene: Did it take you to kind of figure out that that wasn’t the right path for you, and then to pivot? Well, I guess 2018 to 2020 you said.

[00:13:17] Yasmine: Yeah. Yeah. So it was 2018, um, when I sold my first digital product, and then 2019. I began like a soft, I didn’t, I hadn’t formed the official brand of Coaches and Company, but I was selling the digital products that were for services. So I began to, I mean, when I went back to the, when it became clear to me that like, okay, I’m not really excited about this.

[00:13:41] Like, I don’t feel like there’s. I don’t wanna explore this topic further. You know, it just didn’t intrigue as far as e-commerce, physical product, e-commerce goes as it relates to the digital products that I wanted to sell. Um, and so I just went back to the drawing board in terms of like, okay, let me look at my clients and what kind of problems am I helping them solve?

[00:13:59] And what I [00:14:00] was excited about was working with those who were selling services, uh, partly because I was a part of that industry as well. I mean, I was selling services too, right? I was selling legal services, um, and a lot of my clients were selling services as well.

[00:14:13] Um, not legal services necessarily, but they were selling, uh, you know, services related to business and marketing. Services related to operations and technology and systems, um, services related to health and wellness. Working with, um, clients one-on-one. Um, and selling digital products. And so I began to support them in, you know, protecting those assets, intellectual property behind their digital products, um, protecting themselves from liability when they were working with clients.

[00:14:43] One-on-one. And so that was just another, um, you know, one of the things that I remember noticing at the time was that I would meet with a lot of service providers and they would say, you know, Yasmine, I, I want to. Protect my business legally, but like I cannot invest at this point in time, but I’m gonna come back.

[00:15:01] And many of them would come back later after they had, you know, the capital to invest in their legal foundation. But. That in-between time, like you still need protection in that time. And you know, a big part of our mission is to make this more accessible, make these resources more accessible. So of course, you know, it’s at a fraction of the cost of what it costs to work with an attorney, but then there’s also an added benefit of, um, you know, it’s not the confusing legalese that your traditional lawyer is going to include in a business agreement or in a services agreement.

[00:15:31] And you’re able to navigate it and make changes as needed from client to client because sometimes the package varies from client to client and you don’t wanna have to pay a lawyer every time you work with a new client. You know, like that’s just not reasonable in my opinion. So I used to be of the opinion years ago when I was an attorney, big.

[00:15:48] Surprise, or I am still an attorney, but when I was exclusively selling legal services and only working with clients in that way, I used to think that was the best practice was hire a lawyer to create the contract for you, and that’s the best practice. But [00:16:00] after seeing what many lawyers produce in terms of a services agreement for those to be used in the digital space in selling services and digital products online, it requires.

[00:16:11] Very specialized knowledge and experience to create a contract that translates well to the services industry. So that’s what we’ve tried to do and I think we’ve done it successfully at Coaches and Company, is create contracts that people are happy to use, they’re proud to send them to their clients.

[00:16:28] They are confident tailoring them to the specific client and the services to be included and the modifying the policies. We include a lot of policies in our contract that, you know, a lot of people when they see them, they’re like, oh my God, I never would’ve thought of this. Like, you know, rescheduling policies around calls or, you know, how to communicate a refund policy accurately.

[00:16:48] So, um, yeah, it’s, this is a step and. Maybe it’s clear in the way, you know, I’m talking about it like, this is what excited me at the time. I was like, okay, I feel like there’s so much opportunity. Yeah. And, and people are really doing incredible things in this space. And um, what also really interested me was that, uh, women were really thriving in this industry because, you know, historically business was not as accessible as it is today in, in the digital age and in this digital landscape.

[00:17:20] In a number of ways that I would love to talk about if you’re interested. But yeah, it’s, it’s been really cool.

[00:17:25] Rene: Yeah, let me ask a question first. Um, really quick about, you mentioned, maybe it’s not a question you mentioned that some people can’t afford. Maybe, you know, a full on, you know, one-to-one legal engagement, but then maybe later they come to you. And I, I love this model because I think that, you know, some people.

[00:17:47] In the freelance space, in the consulting space, dismiss this like lower paying client. And I don’t always agree, you know, people will say like, oh, if they can’t afford it, they’re a bad client because they have too [00:18:00] many questions and whatever. But I don’t necessarily agree with that because I think that people are early on in their business, they still need something.

[00:18:08] So having, you know, a product. To offer the people who are DIYing it just for now, but keeping that relationship with them so that later on, um, you know, they already have you top of mind and if they need something, they can still work with you. One, one-on-one. So you have both, you have a product that can lead into a service leader.

[00:18:29] So I, I love

[00:18:31] Yasmine: Yeah, I love that. And I love a tiered approach with offers. You know, I think that there’s certainly balance in that. You know, that’s not to say that in every instance and in every business, there must be something for every budget. Um, but you know your market better than you know, probably anybody.

[00:18:48] And so it pays off to take a step back and look at, okay. I love offering this service at like a $5,000 price point or a $10,000 price point, or a $20,000 price point, or whatever that offer looks like. And you know what? There’s a possibility, depending on the budget, you know, it can range from a $500 offer to a $50,000 offer.

[00:19:09] And beyond, right? So, you know, it’s, it’s important for you to get clear on, okay, what is my sweet spot? What is my offer that I have capacity to deliver on and, and the ability to deliver on? And what is, you know, the milestone prior to that that can support my ideal client that maybe they’re not my ideal client today, but.

[00:19:28] Maybe in 12 months or 24 months, they might be my ideal client at that point. So what solution and support can I offer them between now and then that brings them into my world, allows them to benefit from that and then, you know, hopefully become a client of yours if they are still a great fit when the

[00:19:43] Rene: Yeah, and they’ve gotten to know you and like you and trust you outside of the time that you have spent with them. Like you haven’t, you haven’t spent any one-on-one time with them, but they have consumed your product. They’ve maybe watched your videos, they’re on your email list. Your nurturing them without [00:20:00] having to be present with them, and they come to you and.

[00:20:03] They’re, they already know you and they like you and they trust you, so they’re ready to work with you. So yeah, I think that can be really valuable if, if you’re open to it, you know, if, if people agree with that sort of business model and want to implement it in their, in their business. So

[00:20:18] Yasmine: Totally.

[00:20:19] Rene: Do you wanna go back then to what you were talking about, um, just prior?

[00:20:24] Yasmine: So we were talking about, um, women and how that was very exciting for me at the time, um, was to realize, okay, so more women are entering the world of business and entrepreneurship, creating their own ability to generate income, which I think is so powerful.

[00:20:40] Of course, it goes without saying, but when it comes to women, so. Whenever I was a new attorney, I remember I would get calls from women, um, from all walks of life, from all backgrounds, from, I mean, there was no one type of woman that was calling me, but they were women that were in situations, in marriages and in family situations that they couldn’t leave because they didn’t have a financial support for themselves.

[00:21:11] Um, which I wish for nobody. Man or woman, like that’s horrible. You know? I don’t know that there is a worse situation to be in personally. And so, um, yeah, that really solidified for me the importance of having your own ability to generate income, whether that’s skills that you can contribute to a larger company and take a job within an organization and be able to, you know, have stability in, in your financial situation that way.

[00:21:40] Or, and or, right. Because both are options. Um, even if you go with one, um, have your own independent source of income and revenue tied to a company that you created based on skills that you have. So I guess the common thread is certainly having a skillset that you can leverage that has value, that you can provide value to a client or to [00:22:00] another individual or organization through that skillset.

[00:22:04] Um, but yeah, I, you know, love that digital opened up uh, a whole world of business for people who maybe couldn’t leave their house because they had to care for family members or for children. Um, maybe they, um, you know, are, have some sort of physical impairment or other disability that prevents them from, you know, going out in the world.

[00:22:31] Um, and you know, before digital. You had to run TV ads or put it in print or network in person, you know? So those are all options. But if

[00:22:40] Rene: it was way less accessible. Like, yes, not as many. You did hear of people doing it, but not nearly as many people I think were able to do it.

[00:22:49] Yasmine: Yes. Yeah. So it’s just changed the game, you know, and it’s a different world that we’re living in. You’re able to get in front of your customers in a much easier way.

[00:22:58] Um, you’re able to network with other professionals in a much easier way. And yeah, it’s, I think it’s a very exciting time to be in this industry.

[00:23:07] Rene: I do too. I, and I’m gonna play this snippet from, from this for my son because he’s, uh, a sophomore right now in high school, and I. ENC encouraging him to find a marketable skill. Like you need to find something that you can do that is outside of working at Wendy’s. Not that there’s anything wrong with working at Wendy’s, but you are relying on someone else, someone else’s timetable, someone else’s, uh, schedule, um, you know, and any number of other factors that you can’t control.

[00:23:37] So yes, what can you learn to do that you can provide value to someone else? And you know, obviously I love the digital space because. You know, there’s no time restrictions or limitations. You can, it’s very flexible and you know, I think that there’s a lot of value to offer a lot of people out there.

[00:23:56] So when you were creating your products, um, [00:24:00] let’s maybe just focus on the products that you have now. How were you coming up with the contracts maybe that you needed to create, you know, were people asking like, Hey, I need a contract for this or that, or, um, you know, did you have revisions that you went through?

[00:24:16] You know, maybe people saying like, oh, this doesn’t include that I thought it would, or I wish it did. Um, how are you, I guess maybe kind of, how are they? Coming to be and how are they evolving over time, I suppose is, is one question I have.

[00:24:31] Yasmine: Yeah, that’s such a great question. Um, so as you say that, I’m thinking it. Would not have happened had I not been working so closely. One-on-one with clients over the years. So I had been working with clients for a number of years at that point, and, you know, worked with hundreds of clients at that point and got clear on, you know, what their needs were in terms of this end solution here.

[00:24:57] In this instance it was, I need a contract that I can rely on and easily customize to send to clients because that’s what I’m gonna be doing. And so clients were coming to me in my law firm, were asking for this, we were doing them on a one-on-one basis. And then, um, you know, part of that process in working together, there were revisions involved and, and different modifications to the different policies.

[00:25:21] Um, the structure of the contract, the language used in the contract. And so there was a lot of evolution of the product. It wasn’t the digital product, but it was in the early stage, you know, of, of. What ended up being something that was marketed and sold as a digital product. So yeah, it was working with the clients, you know, and getting clear on what their needs are, what their wants are, what issues they had with existing solutions that were on the market.

[00:25:52] So yeah, working with the clients.

[00:25:54] Rene: I think that’s good because I think that we can maybe think that [00:26:00] we know, like we’re like, okay, I know exactly what this, this client needs or what this customer needs, and then you kind of give that to them. But that’s, that’s not really exactly what they need. Um, so getting that feedback I think is important to kind of crafting.

[00:26:13] A final version. Not that I think that anything, any digital product is really ever final. But, you know, creating maybe version one, you know, and then maybe version two, you know, some tweaks over time or new information. Like for example, I, I do have a contract, uh, with someone, um, and it’s a subscription. So the contract was X and I pay a small fee every year to have access to the latest contract.

[00:26:36] But you know, the newest revisions just included, um, stuff about AI. So, you know, there’s always things coming up, I think. And so do you provide that? Like how, how does it work if someone buys your contract? Do they get updates? Do they have to buy them later? Like, how does that work?

[00:26:54] Yasmine: Yeah. Our contracts, once you download them, you’ll receive access to any updated version that we release for that same product. Yeah. So we don’t, we, we have included, uh, provisions around AI in, especially as it relates to content creation, contracts that are related to content creation. Digital product development, um, marketing, uh.

[00:27:16] Collateral and resources design. I mean, all of these have AI implications and the use of artificial intelligence to actually develop the body of work, which there are IP implications there, ownership implications. And so we, to answer your question, I mean, that’s a whole other topic of conversation as far as AI goes.

[00:27:38] Um, but yeah, to answer your question, yeah, if once you purchase, essentially with our digital products, you purchase a license to. The product you get access to, and this is the case with every digital product. When you purchase a digital product, the seller of that product is giving you a license. And the license terms are included in the terms and conditions that are, you know, a part of your purchase that apply to your [00:28:00] purchase.

[00:28:00] Um, and so within our company, when you purchase a license, you have a lifetime license to that product and any future versions of it. Uh, I think that’s a fair model too, the one that you’ve described, you know, for them, for the user to pay for upgrades. I don’t think that that’s unfair by any means. It’s just, you know, a matter of preference and how you decide you want to set up the offer for your customers.

[00:28:21] But yeah, at this time we, we provide, you know, it’s essentially a lifetime license that when you purchase it, you’ll have access to it for the lifetime of the product.

[00:28:30] Rene: of the product. Yeah.

[00:28:31] Yasmine: Yes, exactly. Yeah. Not my lifetime.

[00:28:33] Rene: Yes. Yes. And not their lifetime. Yes.

[00:28:36] Yasmine: Yeah. Yeah. It’s a great question too. Um, and it’s a topic that comes up, uh, pretty often I would say, like, what is lifetime access?

[00:28:45] You know, because you see it in marketing material a lot is get lifetime access to this product, or you get lifetime access to this course or this program. So what exactly does that mean? I mean, it, it means what the contract says it means. So you certainly wanna read what the terms and conditions. State about your access and how long you have access and updates, et cetera.

[00:29:04] Um, but generally speaking, lifetime access means the lifetime of the product for as long as this product exists and is being offered. Once you complete that purchase, you’ll have access to it as long as that product continues to exist.

[00:29:18] Rene: Nice. Yeah, that makes sense. Do you wanna talk about some of the specific contracts that you have? Like you have a ton of contracts, so typically on the show we go through like each product, but most people don’t have so many products. So what are your top five favorite products or your top five bestselling products or the, I guess maybe the, the top five products that people really should have or the most people should have?

[00:29:41] Yasmine: Yeah. I, I’d love to share what our top products are and also like what are the products that most businesses need, those that sell services, um, or digital products. So, um, as far as what are the contracts that every service provider [00:30:00] needs. If you’re selling a service or a digital product online, you certainly need to have a client contract.

[00:30:04] If you’re working with clients, one-on-one, and that’s typically where most people start is they’re, once they decide, okay, I want to work one-on-one with clients, I want to sell a service, whether it’s consulting or coaching, or a done for you service, they realize I need a written agreement with the person that I’m gonna be selling this service to.

[00:30:24] So you wanna have that contract in place. You wanna make sure that it is strong. Well-rounded, well drafted covers the policies that you need to cover, um, helps you anticipate future situations that might arise in that client relationship.

[00:30:37] And that’s really the key to a great contract is including policies that, you know, are a, when they happen, not an if they happen, they might not happen in every client engagement, but you recognize sometimes clients need to cancel calls. Sometimes clients ask about pausing the contract. Sometimes clients are, you know, wanting to meet in person for whatever reason. Um, sometimes they might want to cancel the contract altogether or.

[00:31:02] Maybe they want to, you know, you have an issue with rescheduling of the sessions or whatever that might look like when you’re working one-on-one with a client. So that is something you certainly wanna make sure you’ve got in place and that it’s a, a good, reliable contract, um, that is created with the nature of selling a service online.

[00:31:21] Yasmine: And then of course, if you’re selling a digital product, you’ll want to have terms and conditions for that as well. Those are the terms that govern the purchase of that product, what that license looks like, that you’re giving to the person, purchasing access to it, how long they have access, what exactly they get when they make this purchase.

[00:31:37] And you wanna be really clear so that you don’t have any issues of, you know. The refund requests because they weren’t clear on what they were purchasing and they thought it was something else. And then also to protect your intellectual property, because your digital product is probably mostly comprised of your IP, and it’s your job as the owner of your IP to have measures in place to protect it.

[00:31:59] And the best way [00:32:00] to do that, and the most preventative way to do that is by having solid terms and conditions that address how they can use your digital product. Are they able to use it themselves, you know, for personal use? Can they take it and white label it and commercialize it within their own business and sell it as an their own digital product?

[00:32:15] Which, you know, there’s no right or wrong answer here. It just depends on what it is that you desire as the owner of the digital product. And what is the purpose that you’re creating it. For, um, for your clients and your customers to use. Maybe you are creating it as a resource that they can sell in their own business or they can use in their own business or share with their clients.

[00:32:35] Or maybe you’re creating it for them to just use it personally themselves as a one-time use, um, and everything in between. And so all that matters is that you put that in writing. So those are the first two that most people start with. I would say they’re arguably the most important. But of course there are other components to your legal foundation. Um, to quickly summarize, you know, on your website, if you’re collecting any personal data, like email addresses or payment information, of course you wanna make sure you have a privacy policy that states how you’re handling that information. Are you selling it? Who are you sending it to? And even if you’re just processing payment, you know, that’s your send, your website is sending data to another website to process that payment. So you’ve gotta be clear. The law requires that terms and conditions on your website as well can help protect your intellectual property and anything that appears on your website. Um, and then if you’re working with any other service providers, uh, a contractor or an employee, having an agreement in place that states what the terms of your relationship look like, who is responsible for what?

[00:33:35] Well, who is being compensated? What, um, who owns the intellectual property that’s being created in the contract? If you guys are creating IP together? And so, yeah, these are measures that you can take. I, if you’re new to my world. This is the first time you’re hearing me say this, but if you’ve been around for a while, then you’ve heard me say it a million times, is that it’s all about being proactive.

[00:33:55] It’s all about being preventative. You don’t wanna wait to be reactive. You wanna be proactive. [00:34:00] That requires some investment of time and money upfront, but it’s very little compared to what an investment looks like if you’re doing damage control or cleaning up a legal mess or you know, worse. So highly encourage business owners and entrepreneurs to legally protect themselves.

[00:34:17] Be proactive when it comes to having solid contracts in place with your clients and across the board in your business. And, you know, you can, um, expect to benefit from action like that in your business as an

[00:34:29] Rene: And peace of mind too, just knowing that you have things set up, you know, in place. It’s like insurance, right? Like life insurance and you know, a will and you know, policies for, you know, power of attorney and things like that. Like just in case like we don’t ever think or hope or expect anything bad to happen, but just in case it does here, we have something in place.

[00:34:49] So I think that is, I think that’s really important too. Totally agree.

[00:34:53] Yasmine: Yes, absolutely. You wanna, you wanna have it and not need it, rather than need it and

[00:34:57] Rene: Exactly. Yeah. I just.

[00:34:58] Yasmine: because if you find yourself needing it and you don’t have it, you’re like, why did I do this to myself?

[00:35:03] Rene: I just bought long-term disability, I dunno, maybe two years ago. And just for it, just for, you know, a certain number of years, like before I’m ready to stop working, like in case something happens and it’s just for, for future you, if future you gets into some sort of trouble, you know, you have something.

[00:35:21] Same with the contract, all these policies.

[00:35:23] Yasmine: Absolutely. I love also, Rene, that you said, um, the peace of mind, you know, it’s peace of mind and the confidence that it gives you to show up in your business, like I said, to proudly send a contract to a prospective client, one that you know you can stand by and that you’re proud to stand by.

[00:35:39] And also that, you know, you can explain to them if they ask you like, what does this mean in the contract? If you don’t know what the contract says or means or how to explain it. One, how are you gonna share that with the client? And two, how are you gonna apply it if you need to enforce the

[00:35:53] Rene: Yeah, exactly.

[00:35:54] Yasmine: it, it certainly has a positive effect on, you know, that peace of mind, that, you know, I’m [00:36:00] secure in my business, I know that I did right by my business, and I’ve got a foundation in place to protect it and to protect me.

[00:36:05] And then also, you know, I can confidently show up as a professional because I have a professional agreement that

[00:36:11] Rene: Yeah, and it doesn’t, I don’t think it, it would cover every single thing that ever might happen. But, you know, it’s like, uh, good faith, right? You’re, you’re trying to cover most things that, that one can reasonably expect that might occur. And I think you see this in business over time, you know, at the beginning.

[00:36:31] You know, things look a certain way and then something happens, right? And you’re like, oh, well I need to put that in my contract. So I think coming to a place like this where there’s already a contract in place, you know, you mentioned like having things that people might not think of. That’s so valuable.

[00:36:46] Like we’re relying on this experience that you have, you have working with clients like, oh, I didn’t even realize I needed something for if people reschedule calls, like I think it can be so helpful for people, especially people who are just getting started or you know, in the early stages of their business.

[00:37:00] So. Yeah. Yay.

[00:37:02] Yasmine: Yes, absolutely. You are not alone in that experience at all.

[00:37:06] Rene: And it’s, it is not fun to be on that side of it. Like, oh, I, I have no recourse because I didn’t specify something ahead of time. So I will next time. But you know, this time kind of outta luck, like, ugh,

[00:37:20] Yasmine: That’s a common, I mean, and that’s, I think, I think it’s a part of the entrepreneurial experience when you’re selling services is with every client you learn new lessons.

[00:37:29] You, you learn more about what your preferences are. You learn more about what the client’s preferences are generally, and you’re able to incorporate that into future proposals and contracts and policies. And so it’s just a part of the evolution. It’s to be

[00:37:44] Rene: Yes, yes. Yeah, I was thinking that too. Yeah, for sure. I wanted to ask about support. So some people creating digital products and having digital products might run into the experience where people have questions. So if somebody [00:38:00] buys a template from you and they have questions, is that covered?

[00:38:04] Are, are questions covered maybe for a certain amount of time? What if they have questions later? So, do you have anything, you know, kind of. Maybe people don’t have questions because maybe you answer them all in the product. So what kind of experience do you have with supporting those products that are out there?

[00:38:22] Yasmine: Yes, great question, and I love that you mentioned maybe we don’t have questions. We receive very few questions actually, and I believe it is because we include all of the answers that they could possibly, you know, answers to the questions they could possibly ask in the user guide that comes with our contracts.

[00:38:39] And so we get very few questions, but when we do receive questions, we are not a law firm. So we don’t provide legal services or legal consultation or legal advice. Um, and we make that clear, you know, to people that are purchasing the contracts and then in any email communication too. Um, but we do receive, of course, customer service questions. Sometimes it’s about like the technical aspects. Aspect of downloading the digital product. Sometimes it’s about, um, you know, the meaning of a clause in one of our contracts. And so we’re happy to provide an explanation of what this clause means. Um, and yeah, that’s pretty much the extent of our customer service.

[00:39:13] We receive, uh, a lot of questions, uh, because we do offer a number of contracts and if you look at our shop at coachesandcompany.com, you’ll see that we have, um, you know. I wanna say, I should probably know how many exactly, but if I were to guess, I would say like about 20, um, single contracts that you could purchase.

[00:39:30] And then we have a couple of bundles that we bundled, a couple of products that we know, you know, people need at, typically at the same time. Um, but you could purchase all of our contracts. You know, one by one a la carte. We have our one-to-one client coaching contract, our, um, agency and marketing services contract.

[00:39:48] We have our copywriting services for those that sell single service podcast production, um, group program if you’re running a group coaching program or an educational program of some sort. [00:40:00] Um, if you have a live event or a retreat that you host in person, we have a contract terms and conditions for that. You host workshops. If you sell a digital product or a course, of course we have terms and conditions for that. Um, your website, your team, so contractor, employee, if you’re hiring an associate coach, all of these different relationships that you might have with a customer, with a team member. Um, we have contracts for those.

[00:40:24] And so. A lot of our inquiries and from customers are from prospective customers who are asking us like, can you help me figure out which contract template is right for this type of service that I offer?

[00:40:36] And so depending on like the nature of the service that they offer, we’ll provide them with recommendations whether it’s one or a couple that could fit. But every service looks different.

[00:40:47] Every business looks different. And so it’s interesting to see the different ways people are leveraging their skills and selling a service. But the bottom line is when you’re selling a service online, when you’re marketing, you’re selling it, you’re delivering it online, there are certain clauses you wanna make sure you have in place, and policies you’re communicating and boundaries you establish, um, in order to protect yourself and your business and to promote a successful relationship with the client because both people wanna leave the relationship and end the contract in a positive way, achieving what it is that they sought to achieve throughout that relationship. And so you’ve got a great opportunity as the business owner to set the

[00:41:25] Rene: Yes.

[00:41:26] Mm-Hmm

[00:41:26] Yasmine: and to help navigate, yeah, to help the client and you navigate the relationship confidently because it’s all already been laid out.

[00:41:34] Rene: Right. Yeah. I love that. Set the stage. Yeah. I think that that in setting those expectations, I think is so important with people. Um, the reason I ask about the support was I wonder if some people are thinking like, if I have a digital product will I have, how much support will I have to have?

[00:41:51] Like, will I have to support it all the time for people who can’t figure out how to download it or, you know, and I’ve experienced this myself, people like I can’t access it and like, you know, [00:42:00] you’re, you’re kind of troubleshooting, you know, some things like that.

[00:42:03] So, um, it’s good to hear that it’s not overwhelming and probably for the presale, um, I actually did see. Maybe I interviewed someone recently and she had a number of products also, and there was a way, I can’t remember what that way was, but there was a not sure what you need, like go here. So that is.

[00:42:25] Yasmine: a great, that’s a great

[00:42:26] Rene: Yeah, so I think that like, you know, this show is targeted for people to launch their first product, but it also is good to kind of have in mind that like, if you do go down this path, and a lot of people who have products continue to have products, there are very few people I’ve interviewed on the show who created a product and then just don’t have any products anymore.

[00:42:46] It’s kind of one of those things that like once you have one, you’re like, oh, I like this. Um, good to know that when you have many what you can expect in terms of support, how to help people navigate which products they need, you know, so tho those are just kind of maybe like level two, sort of like advanced topics for the, the digital product space.

[00:43:05] Do you wanna give us some advice for people who have not created anything? Um, like three things, two to three things that maybe you recommend for people to do or not do? Um, any, anything really.

[00:43:18] Yasmine: Yeah. Yes, so like in the note of what we chatted about and yes, even despite the technical difficulties, I’ve enjoyed our chat today. Um, thanks again.

[00:43:26] Uh, I would say. Definitely like don’t shy away from talking with the people that you’re creating this product for. Like that’s a, I would say a basic principle of business and it extends to digital products as well as the, you know, don’t lose touch with your customer. Really get entrenched in their world.

[00:43:47] Get clear on what their needs are, what their struggles are, what solutions they’re looking for, what their preferences are, what their values are. Get clear on all of those things and those that data essentially [00:44:00] will help inform your product development and how you’re designing this digital product because no two digital products are the same and there’s no cookie cutter situation.

[00:44:10] You don’t have to do. You know, there really are very few things that you have to do when creating a digital product. You get to choose a lot of the time, and so you get to design it, and you wanna make sure if you want it to be a successful digital product, I guess, depending on what your definition of success is.

[00:44:24] But if you want your digital product to really benefit the person you’re creating it for, and you want to be able to sell a lot of this digital product, which I imagine you do, if you’re listening to this, um, make sure that you’re talking to your customer and, and continuing to learn about them and keep them within your line of sight as far as why am I actually creating this digital product, if it doesn’t benefit them and they don’t absolutely love it, it’s not gonna be great for you.

[00:44:50] You’re not gonna be, you know, excited about continuing to innovate for that audience and innovate as it relates to that product or create, you know, a suite of products that really support your customer in a well-rounded way. Um, so continue talking to your customer and learn more about them and continue to innovate and evolve as it relates to your digital product and its place in the market and its relation to your

[00:45:18] Rene: Mm-Hmm. Yeah. I love those. I love those. And all of those are kind of saying like, this is not just passive, like there is work to be done, but I think it is important and valuable. Yeah. Different, yeah, definitely different than a service. Uh, but I think it can really, I think you can also help more people.

[00:45:35] Then you, you can one-to-one, like, you just don’t, you kind of run out of time after a while, right? So, yeah.

[00:45:42] So where can people find you online? You mentioned your website, if you wanna mention it again, where you are on social media or anything like that.

[00:45:49] Yasmine: Yes, thank you. So you can find us online, uh, at www.coachesandcompany.com. We’re also on Instagram @coachesandcompany. I’ve been [00:46:00] hanging out on Threads. That’s been fun. Yeah. You like Threads. Me too. I do. too. I liked Twitter before, but like Twitter, I don’t know. The crowd was just not, yeah, it’s not great over there. And so, and I’d felt like that for a couple of years now, and so I would, and I also like got burnt out of Instagram for various reasons, because after years of using Instagram for business, you know, you certainly like, there’s some fatigue associated with it, I believe. And so Threads has been a nice change of pace.

[00:46:30] I’ve met some really cool people, had some great conversations, heard some interesting opinions, so it’s been fun to be on Threads. Um, so yeah, I’m on there. And then I’m on LinkedIn too, so if you’re on LinkedIn, you can find me on there Yasmine Salem Hamden. So yeah, I look forward to connecting with everyone, um, who’s listening to this podcast, please feel free to reach out. We’d love to hear from you. And thank you Rene, for

[00:46:52] Rene: Thank you. I think everybody will find this super valuable.

[00:46:55] Rene: Hey, thanks for listening. I’d love to continue the conversation in your inbox. Email SUBSCRIBE to hey at yfdp.show or sign up in the show notes to get bi monthly emails about how you can create, launch, and market your first digital product. Can’t wait to see you there.