Building her business with services and digital products with Karmen Kendrick

[00:00:00] Rene: Hey everyone. Welcome to Your First Digital Product, a show that helps maxed-out service providers create their first digital product so they can gain an additional income stream, grow their impact without increasing one-on-one work and experience more time freedom. On the show, I talk to business owners who have launched digital products and dig deep into how you can create, launch, and market your first digital product. I’m your host, Rene Morozowich. Let’s go.

[00:00:28] Hey everyone. Today I’m here with Karmen Kendrick, and Karmen is a marketing manager for LearnDash.

[00:00:33] Alongside her role at LearnDash, Karmen helps service professionals and software brands grow revenue by strategizing and implementing go-to market plans, email marketing, marketing automation, customer journey mapping, website management, and lead generation. Do you wanna tell us a little bit about you in your own words?

[00:00:51] Karmen: Yes, I mean, that’s perfect description. So by day I’m a product marketing manager at LearnDash. It’s a course, uh, software. And I got into that by doing freelance web design.

[00:01:00] And I think what happened is I realized that, uh, people needed websites, but they didn’t know how to market themselves online so they wouldn’t get any traffic. So that new website was just sitting there. And so I was like, I need to learn some digital marketing, uh, strategies. And I just started to sink my teeth in whatever I could find.

[00:01:17] I’m pretty much self-trained on everything that I know, and it just transitioned into me like getting this great job and I was like, I’m never getting another job. And I’m like, Hey, this is a great opportunity. So, and I’m able to do it alongside still helping other people. Um, that was where I was at, um, in the past.

[00:01:33] Rene: Yeah. That’s awesome. I have heard, uh, both of those things, uh, one that people like, I’m never getting another job, but then yeah, an amazing opportunity comes along. So I think that is totally, uh, totally great. I have a lot of friends, like I’m in the, the WordPress space and the, um, you know, have a background in, in this web development, things like that. But yeah, that’s a thing.

[00:01:52] Like people have these great websites and people are able to build these great websites. And then crickets, right? Like no marketing is happening at all. Mm-hmm. [00:02:00] No email marketing, no social media, no content, anything like that. Yeah. And I think that that is, it’s really like, what you need. You can’t just build a website.

[00:02:08] There’s like a gajillion websites out there. Like you have to market yourself as a business, you know, online, you know in person, depending on the type of business you are. But I think it’s so important, I think, and I think we all need to market ourselves a little bit too. So especially as

[00:02:22] Karmen: Yes, we do.

[00:02:23] Rene: Freelancers.

[00:02:23] So yeah. Cool. So you have a couple digital products up now? But I think you mentioned that your first digital product was, is not up anymore. So do you wanna tell us about your first product or you know, your first products I guess?

[00:02:37] Karmen: Yeah, so there was quite a few. So what kind of got me into digital product world in 2018?

[00:02:42] I don’t know. I think Instagram, Twitter, I was just annoyed like it was just, that’s like when it first started getting bad, like, you know, you were putting things out there and you weren’t getting noticed and you’re like, mm-hmm. What’s going on? And so I just got overwhelmed. I’m like, I’m gonna look for other alternatives to market my business.

[00:02:56] And I ended up landing on Pinterest and I got into like that. Um, I call it like the girl boss, uh, Pinterest entrepreneurship, small business side of Pinterest. Mm-hmm. And I just saw all these wonderful things. Like, I think the first thing I saw was like a, um, a downloadable wallpaper calendar for your phone.

[00:03:14] And I, I guess you, I didn’t sell it. I just gave it away and it was, it’s so crazy because none of those people were like my target audience, but my email list grew to like 5,000 people. Cause.

[00:03:25] Rene: Woo. Nice.

[00:03:26] Karmen: So you can find something that’s like that and that sets the great pathway. So you can sell digital products cuz you build a really large audience.

[00:03:34] So, mm-hmm. I was just trying different things. I had no idea what I was doing. So from there I created a few, I believe it was like Photoshop templates for creating mood boards. Moodboards were very popular on Pinterest and a lot, a lot of people wanted created them. So I’d started with the Photoshop template. The only thing with Photoshop is that everybody does not have that software.

[00:03:54] Mm-hmm. And Canva had, I think Canva was around, but it wasn’t as robust as it was now. Mm-hmm. [00:04:00] And so I made the decision because I really wasn’t selling a lot of those templates, and so I just made the decision to just shutter them. And you know, I was like, look, if I create something else that’s like template based or you can customize things, it’s going to be something like Canva because it’s easier for people to access.

[00:04:15] Uh, and then just a lot of those products, they just were very, uh, trendy for that time. Mm-hmm. A lot of like the pinks and the marbles, like little things like that. And so I ended up by getting rid of them, I think I also had like a email marketing guide that I put out. It was very, um, basic level. And so a lot of the reason why I don’t sell them anymore is just because it’s, the information is outdated and I haven’t taken the time to update it.

[00:04:40] Um, and then just some things. They were only for that time period. And so they were very trendy and I said like, you know what? I gotta get rid of this. It doesn’t look great anymore. So I have a Google Drive of just like it’s a graveyard of all the stuff I’ve created that I probably cannot do anything with.

[00:04:55] But I’m like, I don’t wanna get rid of it. I still wanna keep it. Yeah, maybe it would inspire me.

[00:04:59] Rene: Yeah. That’s amazing. I love, well, I love Pinterest. I don’t get a lot of people, um, in, in my world, I guess, who are talking about Pinterest. Um, although I did have someone on the show, uh, she’s the first episode, um, her name was Liz, and she was just talking about Pinterest yesterday.

[00:05:13] She was like, Hey, I, you know, my, my Social Marketing Strategist said that I should be going after Pinterest. What do we need to do to my website? So we, we have been talking about that. But yeah, it’s kind of been a thing that’s been around for a while, but I just maybe like a hidden gem, like maybe there’s like an untapped market in there, but I love that, um, that you tried a bunch of different things, um, and things for the time and I think that’s fine.

[00:05:35] Like I, I think that like people. I don’t know what people think. Like, do you think that like you have to have a product and it’s just gonna be alive for all eternity? Like I don’t think that that’s realistic, but so going at a different way and saying, okay, I’m gonna, I’m gonna capitalize on what’s happening right now, or mm-hmm.

[00:05:50] You know, market to that. I love that. And growing your list in that way. Did you find whenever you changed products or you got rid of something, or maybe you kind of pivoted to [00:06:00] something else that you had a big drop off in your list? Or did people stick around because the content was similar? Like what, what happened with the email list that that really grew and then you changed?

[00:06:11] Karmen: Yeah. I ended up starting over because the thing is a lot of those people signed up for that free calendar download. Mm-hmm. And their interest could literally be anything. Mm-hmm. They could be just people that want a cute, uh, wallpaper for their phone, or you have people that are actually business owners.

[00:06:25] So, uh, the thing is like they would be on the list. Cause some people they will unsubscribe, some will never unsubscribe, but you still have to pay for all these people. Mm-hmm. On your list. So I just got to the point where I kind of just started over and I started making lead magnets or pretty much free digital products that would attract the right kind of people.

[00:06:41] Um, now knowing what I know, I wouldn’t delete anybody on my email list. I would just kind of like put them to the side somewhere. Um, it’s like a rule at my job. Like we never delete a contact. Okay. Uh, cuz you just never know. But I mean, it just depends on your budget too. Cuz like I said, these people that aren’t buying anything, you’re paying for them not to buy anything.

[00:06:58] Mm-hmm. Um, so yeah.

[00:07:00] Rene: Yeah, definitely. After you get a certain subscriber account. Yeah. So that’s interesting, um, about starting over.

[00:07:04] So I maybe people don’t even know that that’s an option. Uh, maybe you’re saying it’s not a great option, but you know, it’s a thought like, yeah.

[00:07:12] Karmen: Yeah. But I think there’s ways to start over without going to complete zero. Because even though those people, they weren’t specifically, uh, maybe my target audience.

[00:07:20] Maybe I could have done like different automations and sequences to see who was actually warm or who was maybe even thinking about it because maybe I just caught them where like, they didn’t know that this was possible for them. And so it’s just the ways that you, if you have a list of people that may like you, were doing different things.

[00:07:35] So we all kind of jump around at some point. Sure. And just try to find ways that you can use different automations to, uh, get those people, see where their interests are, and if they’re not interested, uh, you can completely unsubscribe them. They’re never gonna be any good to you at that point. I hate to say it like that, but they won’t be interested in what you’re doing.

[00:07:52] Mm-hmm. Um, but at least give it a try instead of just doing a mass exodus and delete of everybody like I’ve done in the past.

[00:07:58] Rene: Yeah, so even just like an email [00:08:00] or two, um, I don’t know if people are worried like, oh, automation, oh my God, what is that? But like maybe just an email or two that’s like, Hey, I’m pivoting to this, or these are the things that I do now.

[00:08:10] Are you interested in any of these things? And then maybe having a way that whenever they click on those things, they’re tagged with a certain thing. So you can see that they opened the email. You can see that they clicked, so you see they’re engaged. Um, what I do, I don’t know if this is a good thing to do or not, but after a certain amount of time, maybe every year or so, I look at people who haven’t opened anything. Haven’t clicked on anything. Um, not engaged at all. Um, I use a couple different email marketing platforms for, in, in different cases, but mm-hmm. Um, they’re inactive. So they’re totally inactive. Um, and I could send an email to them and say, Hey, I’ve noticed you haven’t opened anything lately.

[00:08:46] Are you still interested? Um, if not, I’m gonna unsubscribe you. I’ve had people do that to me too, like, Hey, you haven’t opened my past 20 emails. Um, you know, which happens. Yeah. And, um, they’ve, they’ve kinda let me go. So I think there’s ways to do that. Yeah. Without, you know, without just being, getting rid of the people, because, yeah, they might be interested in something. They may have grown too in the, in the time that you have grown, they may have grown as well, so.

[00:09:09] Karmen: Exactly.

[00:09:10] Rene: You know. Cool, cool. Okay. Oh, I love that. Let’s, let’s take a step back and look at, at just kind of some of those products. Did you have any problems like creating those or launching or marketing those, or like what kind of, uh, or what are the, the good things that happened out of that that you know, that you learned, you’re like, oh, I do this every time now, or I’m never gonna do that again. Any, any thoughts about those early products?

[00:09:32] Karmen: Yeah, so I think the most challenging part is creating, um, if you have to do any type of training or explainer videos or instructions. Um, cuz I have no problem putting those things together a lot of times, but it’s the fact that, okay, now I have to figure out how am I even going to distribute?

[00:09:46] Like, is it going to be a video? Am I gonna put it inside of a course? So that way it’s not like a paid course, but it’s just like a instruction and it’s more structured. Um, so that way they can go through and figure out how to, you know, put this template or whatever [00:10:00] the product may be together. So that’s something I always kind of struggle with. Uh, the creation part, it’s always been like tools I’ve already used. And so, um, I’m the type of person, I love a template. I think most people love templates anyway. And so if I’m doing something I realize like, hey, other people may want to do the same thing. And then also just never actually launching the thing. Mm-hmm. Um, so I’ve definitely ran into that a few times. Actually, I think what I wanted to do, I wanted to create a website template.

[00:10:28] I’ve wanted to that for like some years, and I’m praying that this year, this is my, this is my year to finally launch my website template. Um, and the thing is, what happened is that they became my portfolio pieces. Um, because I wanted more web design clients. I was just starting out and I really wasn’t getting a lot of clients, and so I was like, well, maybe I can just make some website templates or passive income, but I never created a training to teach people how to use the templates and I just ended up sticking those in my portfolio, like mm-hmm. Hey, these are websites I design. And then I realized, hey, that’s a great strategy to get clients. Like just build something. It doesn’t have to be for a client as long as you’re truthful. You know, you’re not saying that, Hey, I built this for someone.

[00:11:05] This is just something I built. It was for me and this is the kind of client I want and put it in your portfolio. So, um, a lot of different things I just learned from that process of trying to even create my first, um, digital products.

[00:11:18] Rene: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Uh, things that you’ve used, uh, if they work for you, they might work for somebody else.

[00:11:23] I like that. Mm-hmm. Um, and yeah, I, I hadn’t heard that before, but yeah, I think that’s a great thing to just create something, maybe with a different goal in mind, but maybe it works in a different scenario. So, you know, thinking you could sell the templates, but then actually getting more clients from that, I think it’s just a win-win regardless.

[00:11:38] You just did something, so. Mm-hmm. So are you looking to create those templates then this year? Like, is that. Your goal for the year?

[00:11:45] Karmen: Yeah, so, um, recently I think Gumroad, the people that sell on Gumroad, it went up to, I think what happens is the people, if you don’t sell a lot of stuff, I think it was 9% transaction fee.

[00:11:57] If you think they don’t have any monthly fees for using their software, they just take a [00:12:00] cut of what you make. So for most people it doesn’t affect, but you have the high earners that make a lot of money on Gumroad. And I think they were maybe around 3%. Which is pretty much, uh, PayPal, Stripe, they all have that kind of 3%, um, transaction fee, but those people are now going to be at the 10%.

[00:12:15] And so if you’re making a hundred thousand dollars on Gumroad, then you’re paying them 10,000. And so my wheels start turning because uh, you can do a lot of the same things you do on Gumroad with something like WordPress cuz it’s so flexible, all the different plugins that’s out there. And I’m like, you know what, what if I created a solution for that. And it’s not really, I’m not really targeting the people that just wanna build a website. I’m targeting people that want to sell digital products, and they are pretty much the more established crowd, not the people that’s just starting out because the templates, they are going to be more high ticket.

[00:12:48] But you still won’t be looking at the same amount of fees that you’ll be paying to, um, to use something like Gumroad if you made that decision. So I’m pretty much in a process. I’m, I think I’m pretty much done, but I’m in the piece now where I’m creating the training material, teaching people how to use it, and putting the offer together where it makes sense, um, for you to even want to make that switch if you do.

[00:13:09] Rene: Yeah. That’s awesome. Very cool. So how are you, like, are you doing any drip content now? Any kind of teaser? Like are you getting your audience ready that something is coming? I think sometimes what people do is they build a thing and then they’re like, Hey, I have a thing. But. I think it’s good to let people know ahead of time, Hey, I’m building a thing.

[00:13:27] It holds you a little bit more accountable, uh, but also kind of gets your audience ready because people need to hear things multiple times, so. Mm-hmm. Are you doing anything like that? Like, are you letting people know? Yes. Do you have a target? Like Yeah. Tell us about that.

[00:13:37] Karmen: Yeah. Yeah. So people don’t know the actual thing in a way, maybe because the first thing when I heard about the Gumroad news and I was like, Hey, you could do something like that on WordPress.

[00:13:46] I looked at how Gumroad looked, and I’m like, this is simple. It’s not like a fully fleshed out homepage about page, it’s. Literally just sell your products and a couple other, um, auxiliary pages that support that, like the my account checkout pages. Um, and so I just started [00:14:00] to build, I guess a prototype and I put it out there and I was like, Hey, would anybody be interested in something like this?

[00:14:05] And I had a few people like, Hey, I’m, I’m totally interested in that. And um, so I think what I’m, what’s gonna happen is I’m gonna give away, um, the people that said they were interested and they can just wanna do it on their own and use, use like the actual template page. I’m gonna give that away to some people, but, uh, what I’ve been doing recently, I’ve been creating content around how service professionals, uh, need some type of, uh, digital product to create some passive income.

[00:14:29] Because you always kind of have those months where you’re kinda like up and down, you have like a 10K month. And then you have like a a thousand dollar a month the next month, right? And so I’ve been writing a lot of content around there. I had a Twitter space last night, um, about selling digital products as a service professional.

[00:14:45] I believe next week we’re gonna do one about online courses. And so just priming my audience and getting them ready to the idea. The actual launch path I’m doing to get to there. I’m not sure what that’s going to be, but I am thinking about that ahead of time, getting people primed for it.

[00:15:00] Rene: Yeah, that’s awesome.

[00:15:01] I, uh, looked at the Twitter space, but I wasn’t free last night. I was sad to miss it. So how did it go? Tell me a little bit about that. I know it’s a little sidebar, but.

[00:15:09] Karmen: Yeah, no problem. It was a smaller turnout around 12 people that showed up. It is recorded so you can always go back and check it out, but there was a lot of great conversations, I think.

[00:15:17] Uh, Some things that people always kind of worry about is, is somebody gonna steal my stuff? It’s a digital product and that happens, pretty rampantly. And the advice, a lot of the, cuz it was a panelist type of thing. Mm-hmm. And the advice the panelist gave was amazing. Like, you really just can’t worry about it because, to litigate, you need money.

[00:15:35] Mm-hmm. And most small business owners, they do not have money to litigate. And so you almost have to let it go. And a lot of times your audience will end up shaming those people. Not that you want them to like, Hey, you did this, but that’s when this ends up happening because they’re so loyal to what you’re doing.

[00:15:49] So, um, that thought that was like one of the highlights of that conversation last night. Cause I think that’s a big issue that we all face, um, in this digital product, digital world that we’re in right now. [00:16:00]

[00:16:00] Rene: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. I love that. Um, you know, that kind of like, not worrying about it because I think it kind of goes, if somebody just steals your stuff, they just have the stuff.

[00:16:10] They don’t have you, they don’t have the rest of your, you know, your content and your presence and you know, your, your everything else that, that makes it part of you. So. Mm-hmm. I think that, yeah, people could take it and resell it, but they’re, they’re missing the key piece. I think to make it work.

[00:16:28] Karmen: To keep doing stuff.

[00:16:29] And it’s like, and their stuff will never be consistent because they’re not just stealing from you, they’re stealing from everybody. So, yeah. Yeah.

[00:16:36] Rene: Yes. Oh, that’s a great point. Yeah. Yeah. Awesome. Oh, I love, I like the Twitter space thing too. I haven’t really done a Twitter space yet. Um, but I think it’s interesting.

[00:16:43] So it’s just audio.

[00:16:44] Karmen: Yep, just audio. Um, when I was just looking for ways to grow my web design business a couple years ago, in 2020, I went live, cuz Twitter also has like a live feature where you can do like, live streaming. A lot of people don’t know about that either. Yeah, I think they bought, I wanna say that was Periscope they bought a few years ago.

[00:17:01] And so at the time it was like through Twitter, but it was on Periscope. Um, now it’s just integrated directly into Twitter. And so I just saw my audience really grow when I was going live, and I just was, whatever I was working on, I would just teach people something that I was doing. So that’s a great audience builder in getting people ready to buy your digital product.

[00:17:18] Rene: Yeah. That’s awesome. I like it. I like it so much. So, so much good stuff. Okay, so tell us about your current products. You have two products up on your website right now. You have a link-in-bio template, which everybody needs. Mm-hmm. And, um, a service and pricing guide, which also everybody needs. So tell us about those.

[00:17:35] Karmen: Yeah. So, um, I would say like right now, the best seller has always been like the service and pricing guide. Um, it’s made with Canva. I talked about that before. Like if I would’ve did that in Photoshop, I probably would not had as much success because it’s more accessible for people to get on Canva and it doesn’t feel overwhelming.

[00:17:50] Uh, so a lot of people love a service and pricing guide, and that idea just came from me being a service provider, and you get like all these inquiries and people are like, oh, I wanna work with [00:18:00] you. And then you have your discovery calls and then like, they don’t have the money to work with you. Not that that’s a, a terrible thing, but it’s like, you know, your time is money.

[00:18:07] Mm-hmm. And so I was like, Hey, I need, I need to put something out there where people can, um, look at all that I do. They can see my case studies, my testimonials, my process, the pricing, everything they need to know before they even book a discovery call. So that way I know when we get on that call, they actually know like, Hey, this is what we’re looking at if we get involved.

[00:18:27] So I started creating that for myself, and I’m like, you know what? Other people, other service providers will probably need the same type of thing. And so one night I think I just, I put out a tweet. At that point, cause I had a really nice audience, very engaged at that time, and I put out to be like, Hey, what if I did this?

[00:18:42] And a lot of people was like, yes, sign me up. And so I bookmarked that tweet. Um, I think that night I created it. It didn’t take that long for me to create it and it’s pretty like, it wasn’t like a thing that was thrown together. It’s very nice. Got a lot of great compliments about it and I put it out and I think like, pretty much as soon as I put it out, I just started getting sales right when I put it out.

[00:19:01] So.

[00:19:01] Rene: That’s awesome. That’s very cool. So interesting. I was just thinking about. So your audience, so you maybe have two audiences. So the audience of people who would want to buy your web design services, uh, but also the audience of peers who would need a service and pricing guide. Is that, is that right?

[00:19:22] Karmen: Yes, I did figure that out, that it’s definitely two audiences out there because I think sometimes that we approach it as I’m just putting my services out on social media mm-hmm. For people to buy my services. But, um, I found that on Twitter, I was very transparent about the things I was learning, and a lot of people started to, I guess, be inspired by my story.

[00:19:41] Um, at that time I was working in insurance and I was like getting ready to quit my job in insurance. And that’s what I was working up toward. And so I was like being very transparent, like about that process. Even when it came down to, you know, how often am I gonna pay myself and things like that. So yes, yes, I would share, yes, I would share all of those [00:20:00] things.

[00:20:00] And I had no idea at that time that I was inspiring other people around me to make those same moves or, you know, not be afraid to take that next step. And so in the process, I was actually building two audiences, people that wanted web design services and people that were just inspired and were doing something similar to what I was doing.

[00:20:17] Rene: Mm-hmm. Yes. I think that people love that. I know I do. I love that sort of, like, um, that transparency, that honesty, um, you know, we see so much of this like polished stuff, like the Photoshop sort of thing. Yes. Of like the person who’s making 800 billion in digital products. Like, yes, that person’s great.

[00:20:34] Okay. But they’re so far away from where I am or where maybe people are that. Mm-hmm. I think that. It’s just too, it’s just too hard to get to. It’s like saying like, I’ve never run a mile, so I’m going to run around the world. Yes. Like it’s just too far. Like I feel like you need somebody who is closer to where you are.

[00:20:52] It’s kind of like why I like the WordPress community. When I first kind of joined that maybe 2017, because people, you know, you’d go to meetups or, or conferences, WordCamps, things like that. Groups, you know, Slack groups, anything like that. There were people who were just like one or two steps ahead of you.

[00:21:09] Yeah. And they were, they were turning around, you know, if you’re picture like, we’re all climbing this ladder, they’re turning around and like helping you up. Mm-hmm. And at the same time doing their work and at the same time being helped by the person in, in, you know, above them or in front of them in line.

[00:21:24] Yes. So I love that. I think that, um, people, I think people were, obviously you’re saying people respond to that. Like I think that too. I think that people really do want real life. Not always this, you know, polished. Like how, yeah, everybody wants to make a billion dollars. Okay, yes. But like really, what are the actual steps and like what are the doable steps?

[00:21:45] Like I don’t want to make a billion dollars, um, and sacrifice everything just to do that. Like, I still want to have my friends and my clients and my family and, and downtime. Things like that. So I, I just, [00:22:00] I dunno, this is my, yeah. My thoughts on the topic.

[00:22:02] Karmen: I’m the same way. Yeah. Cause I, I started this journey in my early twenties and so that’s when I was just like, hustle mode and I’m gonna be a girl boss.

[00:22:10] But now as I get older, I’m like, you know what? I want like, you know, a family and I don’t want to have to like, choose between, between career and family, but I believe that I can balance it. Um, and so that’s how I approach it now, and I recommend that to anybody. Like think about your future self. Mm-hmm.

[00:22:26] So don’t, you know, sacrifice because you know, that’s just a terrible thing. I know a lot of people don’t like to admit their regrets sometimes. That’s just a terrible thing, just thinking about all the things that you should have and could have done. And a lot of times it’s not that I could have made more money, it’s that I miss so much.

[00:22:39] Like, um, you know, unfortunately I had a, a smaller cousin pass away. He was 10 years old, um, this last couple weeks. And I just realized how much I missed cuz I moved away from my hometown. It’s about three hours away from Atlanta. Um, but I just miss so much of like their lives like growing up because I was in like this hustle mode all the time.

[00:22:58] So I just wanna just put that out there. Yeah. I hate to just bring up a sad story like, yeah.

[00:23:03] I think that’s so sorry about that.

[00:23:05] Rene: Yeah. But I think you, you, I, I totally agree and you, you, it’s a thing like you don’t think it’s gonna happen to you. You know that it happens kind of in the abstract, these sorts of things, but you don’t think it’s going to happen to you.

[00:23:17] Oh, you think you have more time. You know, and, and really it’s, it’s, I think it’s just better to have that balance. When you can like, you know, just kind of keep it in mind, like keep it, keep it top of mind to have that balance so that you don’t have sacrifices and you don’t have those regrets later. So, yes.

[00:23:36] Great. We talked a little bit about your up, do you have upcoming courses that are different from what you were talking about before? Or is that that’s, that’s what is upcoming?

[00:23:45] Karmen: Yeah, so I do have one course I’m planning to create, which is, um, I, I feel like the term funnel is like just so overdone.

[00:23:52] However, just a lot of, um, small business owners, especially service professionals, they don’t have a way to get people from, I’m thinking [00:24:00] about it to, I actually want to buy this from you. Mm-hmm. And so I’m gonna teach, well, I’m gonna start with a mini course. I think I’m gonna make it a free mini course for people just to kind of get into my funnel to buy my services.

[00:24:12] Um, or you work with me in the future. Uh, but I’m just gonna just teach you like, okay, what is your lead magnet? Okay. Do you have some digital products in the mix and just creating that progression into whatever you want, that ultimate thing. So it may just be like it’s a lead magnet that goes right into you buying digital products.

[00:24:28] Um, it really just depends on your goal. But, um, I’d have a lot of my friends, when they want to launch something, they always kind of come to me like, Hey, help me map this out. Even my boyfriend like, Hey ma, help me map this out. I’m like, you know what? So many other people, they need the same exact thing. So I haven’t come up with a name for it, and I don’t want it to be like a funnel.

[00:24:46] So, yes. Yeah. So that’s the next idea.

[00:24:50] Mm-hmm.

[00:24:50] Rene: Like taking some, you know, you, you said taking somebody from kind of where they’re, and like helping them map it out. I feel like that, that is so much better language I think. Because it’s, it makes so much more sense. We know the term funnel and you know, we know people who know funnels but not.

[00:25:05] And the concept I, I think is, is understandable, but yeah. You, you use like the jargon with people and they’re like, I, I don’t get it. I don’t know what it is. I don’t, and then I think if people don’t understand it quickly, they don’t, they don’t give it any consideration or think that they need it at all.

[00:25:19] So, yeah. You know? Yeah. I think giving a name, uh, I always name my stuff last, like even my emails that I send, I write the subject last. I don’t know if that’s the right way to do it or not, but.

[00:25:30] Karmen: Yeah, cuz after you read the email you can like pull different things and you may think about something. Cause I love pop culture references and so I’m like, hey, this kind of relates to that a little bit and I’ll just pull, I don’t know, like a Drake song title or something. So.

[00:25:43] Rene: I like the little things that you don’t know if people are gonna get or not. Like. Mm-hmm. You know, I like, you’ll put something, I don’t know if you do, but I put something in an email and I’m like, oh, I wonder if somebody’s gonna get that.

[00:25:55] It’s like an Easter egg.

[00:25:57] Karmen: Yeah. I try to stick with a more generic, I think I [00:26:00] had one.

[00:26:02] Like, I think it was about their feast and famine cycles. Mm-hmm. And I’m like, you know, you, one minute people are knocking down your door and then the next it’s drier than the Sahara Desert. And like everyone knows like that kind of reference. So I try to kind of stick to more generic ones, but every now and then, because a lot of my audience is Twitter, and so you will see a lot of those funny memes that come up.

[00:26:21] Um, and so I think that people can, uh, relate to some of that if it’s like, you know, subject line or product title, but it’s just. You want to draw people’s attention without being gimmicky? I think so. Mm-hmm.

[00:26:32] Rene: Yeah, definitely. Yeah. I love that. That’s so cool. Okay, so anything else that you wanna talk about before I ask you what you recommend for people creating their first product?

[00:26:41] Anything that we maybe missed or that you feel really like, oh, let’s talk about this.

[00:26:46] Karmen: Uh, let’s see.

[00:26:46] Rene: Not to put you on the spot, but.

[00:26:48] Karmen: Yeah. Yeah, I’m trying to think. I think we covered like really just the biggest things around like digital product creation. Like, uh, just getting stuck with like if you have to do any type of documentation, getting stuck on that piece, never kind of launching it.

[00:27:00] And so I think that we covered like a lot. So yeah. I’m on to recommendations, so yeah.

[00:27:05] Rene: Okay. Yeah. So tell us, what do you recommend, and it’s either that people do or don’t do, so it doesn’t have to be like, do this, it could be like, just don’t do that. Anything is good.

[00:27:12] Karmen: Yeah. Yeah, so my recommendation is if you are thinking about creating digital products, think about something that you’re already using.

[00:27:19] Um, for example, if you’re using, uh, Zapier, um, in Zapier you can copy Zap. So if you have a Zap that I don’t know, automatically sends an email to a particular folder, and then it replies to someone, you can take that same zap and sell that as your digital, digital product. So just start where you are and start looking at tools that you’re already using, and you probably have some type of template that you’re already using.

[00:27:42] For yourself and your business and other people need that. So, um, just start thinking there is why I said when it comes to creating a digital product and not looking to see what’s on the market, just like what’s useful.

[00:27:52] Rene: Mm-hmm. Yeah. That whole like research and the thing, like I get it, you know, research is maybe good to do, but.

[00:27:58] Yes, I think as a service [00:28:00] provider, and you know, this podcast is specifically for service providers. You, if you’ve been doing this for a while, you probably have some systems, some processes, some things that have worked for you, even things you know for your business, so selling to your peers or things for your clients.

[00:28:18] Um, that maybe make it a little bit easier. Building a website, you always need a way to get content from clients. If you have created something to get content from clients, other people may want to, to check that out because it’s valuable.

[00:28:31] You’ve, you crafted this, you know, this life and this business, and if you’ve done it well, you probably do have some things to share. So yeah, you don’t have to start at the beginning and you could look at what you already have and what, what is doing well. Yeah. And asking your audience like you did, Hey, if I built this, would you like it?

[00:28:48] You know, kind of getting that initial feedback because that’s important too I think.

[00:28:52] Karmen: It is.

[00:28:54] Rene: Yeah. Yay. Well, thank you so much for being on this show today. Uh, tell us where we can find you.

[00:28:59] Karmen: Yeah, so I am always on Twitter. Um, and my name on Twitter is iamkarmenk, and that’s Karmen spoke with a K and then another K for my last name.

[00:29:07] So it’s iamkarmenk. Um, you can also visit my website, which is karmenk.com. And I think that’s pretty much my main places that I’m online. So, yeah.

[00:29:17] Rene: And they should send it for your newsletter too, right? Because you give away tacos.

[00:29:20] Karmen: Yes. Oh, I, how could I forget about that? Um, so yeah, so I actually own the domain tipsandtacos.com, but it just redirects to my site to karmenk.com.

[00:29:29] Uh, but yeah, so every week I write it, uh, email newsletter. It’s about marketing tips specifically for service professionals and providers. Um, and so you can sign up and then I randomly select someone every Tuesday to win free tacos. I just send you either a cash app or a PayPal, uh, payment and you can buy your tacos or whatever you need to do with that.

[00:29:48] But, uh, that’s just my little thing there.

[00:29:50] Rene: I like it. I wish I had good tacos here to buy. I feel like I’m not in a good taco area, but yes. Yeah. The point is still good, so. Yay. Well, thank you so much for being on the show, and I will [00:30:00] put all of those links in the show notes.

[00:30:02] Karmen: Okay. Awesome. Thank you. Thank you for having me.

[00:30:03] Rene: Yay, take care.

[00:30:05] Karmen: All right. Bye.

[00:30:06] Rene: Hey, thanks for listening. I’d love to continue the conversation in your inbox. Email SUBSCRIBE to hey at yfdp.show or sign up in the show notes to get bimonthly emails about how you can create, launch, and market your first digital product. Can’t wait to see you there.