Episode 42

Affiliate marketing alongside your digital product with Angela Markham

Angela talks about her first product, The Flourishing Affiliate and how the process was much different from her new product, The Affiliate Ascent. I also ask all of my burning questions about using affiliate marketing with your digital products.

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Angela Markham has been helping small business owners grow their income and impact with affiliate marketing since 2014. She educates and motivates her clients through online courses, coaching programs and management services, which are all built on establishing and growing genuine relationships to generate scalable income sources.

Find Angela at angelajoymarkham.com and connect with her on Instagram.

Get Angela’s free goodies – 25 ways to recruit affiliate partners and how to grow your business with affiliate marketing.

Check out her courses – The Flourishing Affiliate and The Affiliate Ascent.

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[00:00:00] Angela: Specifically marketing when you don’t have a big audience. In retrospect, I don’t think a digital course, especially like a high ticket digital course, was probably the best thing for me to launch first. I had a group of done for you clients at that time.

[00:00:16] I had just started my business maybe within the last year, so I didn’t have a huge social media following. I didn’t have a huge email list. And so just doing a lot of like one-on-one, reaching out and nurturing relationships one-on-one was, was the tactic that I, that I had to go to market my offer, which again, the course that I took to create the course made it seem like a lot easier to go and, and do that.

[00:00:44] And so that was definitely difficult was marketing this high ticket course with, with zero, hardly any audience.

[00:00:51] Rene: Hey everyone. Welcome to Your First Digital Product, a show that helps maxed-out service providers create their first digital product so they can gain an additional income stream, grow their impact without increasing one-on-one work and experience more time freedom. On the show, I talk to business owners who have launched digital products and dig deep into how you can create, launch, and market your first digital product. I’m your host, Rene Morozowich. Let’s go.

[00:01:19] Hey everybody. Today I’m here with Angela Markham. And Angela has been helping small business owners grow their income and impact with affiliate marketing since 2014. She educates and motivates her clients through online courses, coaching programs, and management services, which are all built on establishing and growing genuine relationships to generate scalable income sources.

[00:01:39] Hey, Angela, how are you?

[00:01:41] Angela: Hey, Rene. Good. How about you?

[00:01:43] Rene: I’m good, thanks. I’m so excited you’re here because I’m so interested in affiliate marketing and I’m really curious about your products, but why don’t you tell us just a little bit more about you in your own words.

[00:01:53] Angela: Yes, yes. So I, you know, for about the past decade have been in the affiliate industry [00:02:00] essentially being a liaison between affiliates or people who wanna promote other people’s brands, and then brands that need sales and traffic. And so I’ve been the middle man partnering those two together. Um, yes. Since before affiliate marketing was even really a thing.

[00:02:17] And um, so it’s been fun to kind of watch the evolution of affiliate marketing in the past 10 years. Um, and then also start this business and start creating digital products around affiliate marketing, education, and helping fellow business owners like you and I, um, integrate affiliate marketing into our businesses authentically and genuinely, and, um, with the ability to create some passive income.

[00:02:43] Rene: For sure. Yeah, I was thinking that seems like a long time to be in affiliate marketing. I’m sure it’s been a thing for a long time, but yeah, you definitely wouldn’t have guessed that long. So you have probably seen a lot of different things over the years and that’s probably pretty exciting.

[00:02:56] Angela: Yeah, I mean, so affiliate marketing back in 2014. There was a lot of messaging within my, you know, my work about what is affiliate marketing, and that is not the case anymore. Oh yeah. Most people have at least heard of it. Um, so that’s good.

[00:03:12] But yes, the evolution of affiliate marketing has been, you know, hills and valleys and winding roads around what people think of affiliate marketing, what kind of connotations it has in people’s minds. Mm-hmm. And then approaches to succeeding with affiliate marketing, um, I think are changing on a weekly, monthly basis, so, yeah.

[00:03:34] Rene: Yeah, definitely. Yeah. And it’s exciting. So I’m excited to hear about your products.

[00:03:37] Um, so your first product that you already have is about how to become an affiliate promoting other people’s products. And the other one, I’m just, just, just because I had to go through this in my mind, your upcoming product is how you can get people to promote your product. So I think those are like the two main paths, right?

[00:03:57] Like promoting other products or getting people [00:04:00] to promote your products.

[00:04:01] Angela: Correct. Yes. Awesome. And somebody could be interested in just one or both paths with their business, generally we can make work.

[00:04:09] Rene: Yeah. Awesome. Okay, cool. So tell us about your first product. Um, it’s called The Flourishing Affiliate.

[00:04:13] So how to become an affiliate, how to promote other people’s products. So tell us, you know, just kind of like, I don’t everything, like who was your audience and what problem does it solve for them and you know, when you created it, all that good stuff, whatever you wanna say.

[00:04:26] Angela: Yeah. Yeah. Awesome. Yes. The Flourishing Affiliate is an online self-study course.

[00:04:32] It’s four modules that should take somebody anywhere from four to six weeks, and it is helping a business owner like you and I integrate affiliate marketing into their business with integrity. I teach affiliate marketing quite differently in this sense than a lot of other affiliate marketing courses you might find out there because I’m really wanting to start with the foundation of you as the business owner, what your business is all about.

[00:04:59] And then let’s take products you’re already promoting or services you’re already promoting, and integrate them seamlessly within your existing business, um, so that we can make you a little bit of extra income. You can have some side cash coming in. You know, it’s always good to kind of diversify your income.

[00:05:16] So a lot of times we’ll take products and services that you’re already promoting, but not via affiliate links. Mm-hmm. Simply turn them into, um, affiliate streams of revenue and, um, pretty quickly can start generating some income there. And so the course takes you from, let’s take a look at where your brand is at and make sure that your brand is set up to, uh, promote affiliate products effectively, all the way to, um, what kind of content works best with affiliate marketing.

[00:05:47] What kind of brands should you be promoting based upon what type of business you have? Um, all the way to kind of automating the process and systemizing and making sure that [00:06:00] we’re reducing those weekly hours because it is, it is time to get it set up. It’s not completely passive.

[00:06:07] And then there’s a little bit of time to keep it kind of flowing. Um, but the course is, is a true step-by-step A to Z process. And so someone who says, I know what affiliate marketing is. I think it will work for me. I don’t even know what to do. Could take this course and, and, and get set up and start making some affiliate marketing income in their business.

[00:06:32] Rene: Yeah, for sure. That sounds amazing. I have some products that I use and then, you know, it’s kind of easy to sign up for the affiliate. It’s like right after that then what? You have to promote it and how do you promote it authentically and, what do you kind of do to get eyes on those affiliate links and stuff in a way that seems like you mentioned, like authentic and, and not just that I want to just promote anything.

[00:06:54] These are things that I use and love and all that kind of good stuff.

[00:06:57] Angela: Right, because your audience is gonna sense that. Mm-hmm. If you, if you just start promoting something out of the blue saying, you know, here’s my affiliate link. People are not blind to that anymore.

[00:07:07] Mm-hmm. You know, like I said, the, with the evolution of affiliate marketing, people generally know what it is, and they don’t wanna necessarily be sold to just because it’s an affiliate link. Mm-hmm. However, on the flip side, business owners wanna support other business owners. Mm-hmm. So, if you said, I’ve been using this product and I’m now, I love it so much, I’m now an affiliate for it.

[00:07:27] You know, you’re supporting my business by clicking on my link before you purchase. Mm-hmm. I think we’re all about that. We’re all about this collaboration and support for one another, which is great.

[00:07:37] Rene: For sure, and sometimes when I’m ready to buy another product, you know, I’ve heard of it from someone, or I just know that it’s the right product for me.

[00:07:44] I’ll go looking for an affiliate link, like somebody in my network, like, Hey, does anybody have a link? It kind of just makes sense to, you know, promote the, the products that way and purchase through them.

[00:07:54] Angela: Yes. Yes, me too. I’m the same way. I always ask if someone refers something to [00:08:00] me, like, do you have an affiliate link? Mm-hmm. I’ll, I’ll gladly click that and purchase.

[00:08:04] Rene: So, yeah, definitely. Yeah. Cool. So what made you create this product and what did you hope that it was going to do? Like is it part of your product ladder, like if somebody purchases this course from you, like do, can they then work with you afterwards?

[00:08:18] Or is, or they’re just ready to go? Tell us a little bit more about the course and um, how it works like in your business model.

[00:08:26] Angela: Yeah. Yeah. So on this side of my business, if we’re talking about kind of the two paths mm-hmm to becoming an affiliate or launching, so if we’re talking about this becoming an affiliate side, the Flourishing Affiliate Online course is one of my higher ticket, um, items.

[00:08:41] I do have in my funnel with digital products, before you really hit that level of the full-blown, um, self-study course, some swipe templates and some things that can get you going. And of course like lead magnets and that sort of thing. This is not necessarily the end all be all.

[00:08:58] I’m still building my business and so I kind of, I don’t really market any other, um, opportunities to work with me on this end. However, I do have like two clients right now that I’m monetizing their blog in like a done for you sense. So that would be a higher ticket way to work with me if you said, I don’t wanna go through a course, I don’t wanna learn it, I just want Angela to take my blog that I’ve been mm-hmm.

[00:09:22] Contributing content. Yeah. Like I’ve been contributing content for the last 10 years or however many years to my blog and I don’t have any affiliate links. Help me out. Um, I do that at the moment and I can’t say like how much more, how much longer I’ll be doing that ’cause it that is, you know, a true blue like done for you service.

[00:09:40] And so it takes a lot of my time. But yeah, as of right now, I do offer that.

[00:09:44] Rene: Mm-hmm. Yeah. I mean, and you don’t have to. What I love is it, it, the products don’t have to be in any specific order, like in everybody’s business. Like there’s no kind of one size fits all where you know, you have a free blog post, lead magnet, small product.

[00:09:58] Bigger product, [00:10:00] one-on-one service. Like, it doesn’t have to be any specific thing. So I, I just kind of like to showcase that, you know, with the guests that I have on the show, because I want people to know that it can just be however you want it and however works best for you. And if it’s just the courses, especially with the bigger course, you know, that’s amazing.

[00:10:15] But, so these other products, I didn’t really see them on the website. Did I miss them? Or where are they, how, how would one get them? Is it from the lead magnet or they kinda hidden in the middle? It’s okay.

[00:10:25] Angela: Yes. Yes. So because I have these two different channels, or ways to work with me, you know, whether you want to launch an affiliate program or become an affiliate.

[00:10:35] Um, I truthfully, since this was my first digital product, I have moved away from creating more digital products in the sense of becoming an affiliate. So some of them are probably hidden, like, for example, my lead magnet right now, I’m really trying to promote my next like up and coming course, which doesn’t really have a lot to do with the flourishing affiliate.

[00:10:57] Essentially, to answer your question, they probably are kind of hidden or you’ll see the opportunity within my funnel. So if you download the lead magnet, then okay. The thank you page was like, they’re in there. Hey, grab this swipe file.

[00:11:09] Rene: Yeah. Okay. Cool. Cool. Yeah, I’ll check that out.

[00:11:10] It’s interesting. Um, yeah, because some people put, and again, people doing this different ways, like all the products, and you can kind of pick. Some people bundle products. Some people have that, you know, signature level course. Like it. There’s so many ways to do it in, in whatever kind of works, and I think not everybody has all of those at once.

[00:11:26] Like so did you create the product first and then kind of backfill those smaller things? Or did you create the smaller things and then the bigger thing? Like how did that work?

[00:11:35] Angela: I created the course first, and that’s how, just how my brain works, even even creating the course material and actually recording everything and creating the, the swipe files mm-hmm.

[00:11:49] And creating the, um, screen shares and the videos and stuff. Creating all of the course content before create anything else really helps me specifically create like, marketing content around [00:12:00] it. Mm-hmm.

[00:12:00] One specific course that I took on how to create a course several years ago. I took this says, and I think a lot of people do teach this way.

[00:12:09] They say, okay, create all your marketing material. You know, find out who your ideal client avatar is. Figure out your messaging, your transformation, the problem you’re going to solve and sell your course before you even create it. And that might work for great for some people, and it just does not work for me.

[00:12:27] Yeah. And so yes, I did do everything completely backwards, which I think does take longer.

[00:12:32] Rene: That’s okay though because you did it and that’s the thing. You’re, you didn’t do it the way that they said and then, you know, kind of fail at it. Like you did it the way that that worked best for how you work, which I think is amazing.

[00:12:44] It kind of reminds me of like, you know, whenever you go to write an email and like your email marketing platform, like some platforms ask for the subject first and then some ask for the body first. Like, I wanna write the email and then write the subject. That’s just how I work. Some people wanna do it another way.

[00:12:59] I like that you can do it both ways. So yeah, I don’t think there’s any one right answer. Yeah, I’m not a fan of the, the instruction out there that anything has to be a specific way, because I think that kind of turns people off, especially if you don’t work that way. ’cause then you maybe feel like something’s wrong with you and that there’s not.

[00:13:15] Angela: Agreed. Yeah, because I haven’t really talked to a lot of people, especially like peers that I took that specific course with. I feel like I was the only one. And there’s no way, I mean, I know in my right mind, there’s no way I was the only one that, that struggled with that. Mm-hmm. But it does kind of seem that way when, when everyone is just kind of going with along with the plan and I’m like, wait, wait, wait.

[00:13:36] Rene: Yeah. And you’re like the teacher said, and you’re like, yeah. You’re like, wait, I don’t wanna do it that way. Yeah. And that’s totally okay. So like, I think that’s good, but it, and I’m glad that you did it. Like I’m glad that you kind of were like, Nope, I’m gonna do it this way, and then did it. Um, because yeah, I can’t imagine creating the marketing materials first.

[00:13:52] I mean, some things, you know, like an outline, like I’d probably do an outline first, or you know, kind of just like, here’s where I want to go. Kind of like a, a [00:14:00] roadmap, if you will. Um, then create it, but then yeah, kind of look at the marketing afterwards. But again, no right way. No wrong way. Yeah. Whatever works for you.

[00:14:09] Angela: Yeah.

[00:14:10] Rene: So did you have any problems along the way? Like, so you were like, I’m gonna create a course. I knocked out all these videos, I created all my marketing, I launched it and it was amazing. How long did it take you? Did you have any support along the way? You know, any, any thoughts on that stuff?

[00:14:25] Angela: Yes. Well, I know that you know this, Rene, but there are a lot of moving pieces when you wanna launch a digital product. Yes. And from the outside it doesn’t, like if you’re looking at someone launching, it doesn’t seem that way. If, especially if they’re doing a really good job. Mm-hmm. Like if they’re doing a really good job launching, you’re like, they made that seem so easy, but there are so many moving pieces.

[00:14:47] So yes, I had a ton of problems. And, um, to be honest, I launched it already, it was two years ago, and it’s, mm-hmm. It’s funny how easily you forget the problems. The big one we just talked about that like reverse engineering almost, um, which I had to kind of find my own path mm-hmm around.

[00:15:03] But specifically marketing, when you don’t have a big audience. And I know we have talked about this previously together, but um, in retrospect, I don’t think a digital course, especially like a high ticket digital course, was probably the best thing for me to launch first. Mm-hmm. Um, I had a group of done for you clients at that time.

[00:15:26] I had just started my business maybe within the last year, so I didn’t have a huge social media following. I didn’t have a huge email list. And so, um, just doing a lot of like one-on-one, reaching out and nurturing relationships one-on-one was, was the tactic that I, that I had to go to market my offer, which, um, again, the course that I took to create the course made it seem like a lot easier to go and, and do that.

[00:15:57] And so, um, I. That was [00:16:00] definitely difficult was marketing this high ticket course with, with zero, hardly any audience.

[00:16:04] Rene: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Have you been building the audience over time then? ’cause you, you said you have a lead magnet and um, some other, do you have some content that you’re, that kind of like, are you building that audience now?

[00:16:15] Angela: Yes. I do have two separate transformations with the two different paths that you can go with with affiliate marketing. However, my client avatar for both of ’em is pretty similar. Mm-hmm. Like I said, uh, my client avatar could be interested in both things. Generally I suggest starting with one or the other and not doing them simultaneously.

[00:16:35] Yes. Um, that would be confusing for, you know, to implement, but I’m currently working on kind of like the all-encompassing entrepreneur. Like my client avatar is someone who is short on time. They’re busy, they’re looking to scale their business and like move to the next level in their business. And they’re just not sure how they’re gonna do that without taking more of their time.

[00:16:57] Time that they don’t have. Mm-hmm. Frankly. Mm-hmm. There are separate transformations, like I said, so, um, I’m still kind of working through that, to be honest. Um, segmenting my email list out has been really important, um, in order to kind of continue to nurture that, The Flourishing Affiliate, that first product, um, that group of people.

[00:17:17] Because like I said, I’m coming out with kind of a new product for the launch an affiliate program side, and so I’ve been a little bit more focused on that in the last year. Mm-hmm.

[00:17:27] Rene: Yeah, that makes sense. And so I, I would think maybe that people might want to start with, you know, becoming an affiliate.

[00:17:35] They’re already using products, they can promote those products and then as they create their own products, to have other people promote those like that, that kind of seems like a path. But yeah, I’m sure and people are gonna go about it any, any which way they’d like to. And is it small solopreneurs, small businesses, um, like what team size, I guess makes up that client avatar?

[00:17:58] Angela: Yes. I work with [00:18:00] everyone from, um, solopreneurs all the way to like, companies that have teams and, and a hundred employees, let’s say. Mm-hmm. Um, however, you know, which product they’re going to want of mine, um, depends on, you know, where they’re at in their business and where their budget is at, frankly.

[00:18:20] And so a lot of my done for you, most of my done for you clients are bigger businesses. Mm-hmm. That can kind of afford to hire me for that one-on-one done for you work. Whereas a lot of solopreneurs want to take advantage of like my course or even my coaching. Mm-hmm. Because they wanna learn it.

[00:18:38] Um, and so my only caveat there would be is if you are a solopreneur, do you have a few hours a week to to implement? Mm-hmm. If not this, a affiliate streams of revenue can easily, easily be something you can train like a virtual assistant or somebody on the team. I think that is a great strategy to have to kind of, you know, let’s get on coaching together and get both of you into the, into the coaching calls so that your VA can mm-hmm kinda take over this channel and, and learn how to do that.

[00:19:09] Rene: Yeah. And here’s like a, a checklist of things like step one, step two, step three, you know, modifying blog posts or, you know, whatever, writing emails or whatever it is that, you know, you would use to promote those affiliates.

[00:19:20] Angela: Exactly.

[00:19:21] Rene: Yeah. Awesome. Cool. So any other things that you wanna say about the first product? Like any other thoughts about the first product before we dive into the second one?

[00:19:31] Angela: Yeah, I was just gonna say one other thing about problems too, because you had mentioned, or problems that this can solve for somebody. Um, you had mentioned something about earlier in our conversation about, you know, I’m already promoting all these affiliate products, but I maybe just don’t know how to like, go and get everything in order.

[00:19:49] And I think that is like you hit the nail on the head with that because, um, a main problem that we can solve here is organization. Mm-hmm. And it seems like such like an easy [00:20:00] concept when you’re looking at it from the outside, but then when you go to implement this whole like, organizing, I don’t know, 20, say you have 20 affiliate relationships or more.

[00:20:07] Mm-hmm. Um, that can seem like a lot. It can almost get to you to the point where you’re in analysis paralysis and you just can’t do anything. Because you dunno where your links are located. Yes. Yeah. You’re like, I don’t, it’s, yeah. Yes. And so that, that is something I, I excel in is organization. I’m a super type A personality and I love project management software.

[00:20:30] Mm-hmm. So, um, I like to incorporate that into my, into my relationships as well. And, um, make sure that we know where everything’s at, I think is the biggest first step.

[00:20:40] Rene: Yeah. And I think that’s so helpful for people that to kind of guide them through those things. I’ve worked with service providers before.

[00:20:47] I actually just, um, started an engagement with someone today. I just paid the invoice and, you know, very clear, like step by step by step, and then we’re gonna do this, you know, and then we’re gonna do this. And it, it makes me feel like they are, and kind of driving the bus on our journey together of, you know, whatever we’re going to do together.

[00:21:06] And I’ve worked with other service providers too, where I haven’t heard from them for a while, or I’m like, I don’t know am I waiting for them or are they waiting for me? Like, it hasn’t been as successful. So I think that that’s so helpful for people, especially organized people or disorganized people, to have somebody who is really clearly driving the bus, like, okay, I’m in charge here.

[00:21:27] This is what we’re gonna do. And it’s, it’s just easier, I think.

[00:21:31] Angela: Agree because when you’re putting your dollars behind hiring them, you’re putting your trust in them that like, show me the way.

[00:21:39] Rene: Yes, exactly. Yes. Yeah, for sure. So tell us about your upcoming product, uh, The Affiliate Ascent. Is it a course too or is it some other thing? And are they courses in, in such that, you know, I log on, I do the thing, and then that’s it? Or is there, you know, one-on-one time, is there a group to participate in?

[00:21:58] Like how does that [00:22:00] work?

[00:22:01] Angela: Yeah. Um, yes. This upcoming one is a online self-study course for someone who wants to launch their own affiliate program, and both of my, both of my courses are structured very similarly. Same number of modules. We’re just teaching something different. And then along with the self-study modules where yes, you would, you would log in and you would go throughout your own pace.

[00:22:23] I have a suggested calendar for you, but everyone works differently. Mm-hmm. So I don’t believe in like dripping content if you’re, if it’s a self study program. ’cause I think some people are gonna wanna binge it in a weekend. Mm-hmm. And some people, it’s gonna take them a month. Mm-hmm. So, which is totally fine.

[00:22:39] Um, and then along with those self-study courses, you do have access to my community, my private community. Um, and then the thing that’s nice about that community is you have people who are affiliate marketers wanting to become an affiliate, and you have people in there that want to launch their own affiliate programs where you can partner together.

[00:22:59] You might just find your perfect affiliate partner mm-hmm. Within that community, knowing like they’re all. You know, working through the same process of using affiliate marketing with integrity. Mm-hmm. And using affiliate marketing organically and for, essentially for the long haul, getting things set up.

[00:23:16] So you, you both are kind of on the same page knowing you’re in there. Um, and then within that community we have, uh, live monthly Q&As with me. Ooh, nice. So you, yeah. And I’m always in the group, so if you have any sorts of questions, ask them in the group. And if someone in the group doesn’t answer, I’m right there, right away.

[00:23:36] Um, and then yes, live calls where we can kind of hash out any roadblocks you’re running into and whatnot. So.

[00:23:42] Rene: Nice. So do people have to submit their questions ahead of time? Do you record them? Are they like office hours? Like, I’ve been hearing more about this lately, so I’m curious.

[00:23:50] Angela: Yes. So what I do is I have the the call scheduled the same time every month. Okay. The second Wednesday of every month. And, um, yes, you [00:24:00] do have to submit your questions ahead of time via a form. Mm-hmm. And, um, sometimes on the calls, depending on how many people show up for the calls, um, sometimes we have like, extra time for questions.

[00:24:12] If someone didn’t submit them ahead of time, I can take questions there. Or sometimes we’ll go off on like fun tangents of. Yes. You know, things that have been going on in the affiliate marketing world. Mm-hmm. Like I said, which is always changing. Um, anyway, so yeah, it’s a super fun group.

[00:24:29] Rene: Nice. That’s awesome. I think people like that too, instead of kind of just like learning something and then that’s it. Like having a place where people are talking about it. Um, that’s not overwhelming.

[00:24:38] I kind of feel a lot of overwhelm lately. So a place that’s not like too, too busy. I don’t know the community super busy or not, but you know, a place where you can kind of just jump in and kind of learn something or ask a question without feeling like, oh my God, I just missed 8,000 messages.

[00:24:52] I have to catch up on this. Like, I don’t know, it sounds like a nice place to me.

[00:24:56] Angela: Thank you. Yes. I, my mindset around that and like, I can relate to the overwhelm so much. My thoughts are like, we’re getting in a world where people are realizing less is more.

[00:25:08] Rene: Mm-hmm. Thank goodness. It’s like when flats came back into style, I was really excited.

[00:25:13] Angela: Yeah. I mean, so, so it’s crazy like being in, being a course creator, I guess I could call myself now, um, like knowing I don’t have to include everything that’s up in my brain, like in the course. I just wanna get them from A to Z. Mm-hmm. And I wanna get them there as quickly as possible without any fluff.

[00:25:33] Mm-hmm. And reduce overwhelm for them. Because when you’re trying to learn something new, the last thing you want is a whole bunch of information thrown at you. Right. And you don’t, you don’t wanna start or not know how to start, so.

[00:25:46] Rene: Yeah. Or you get stuck like right away. I, I bought a course one time where, like the first module or the first question, I was stuck immediately and I was like, no.

[00:25:52] It’s like when you don’t know the answer to the first question on a test, you’re like, this is not good. I feel like it’s, you know, giving people those quick wins and, [00:26:00] and yeah, like making it as simple as possible because I wanna learn the thing. But I don’t need all the extra, like, you know, on the flip side, I do love to give all the extra, but yeah, kind of really reigning myself in and be like, okay, that’s, that’s for later.

[00:26:13] You know, I can tell them that later. You know, this is just the important information for now. So I think that’s a good approach to it.

[00:26:19] Angela: I love that. You’ve brought this up a couple times. Giving permission. I love it. I love it. You gave me permission earlier, like you don’t have to sell the course like she says, before you create the course, you can create the course first, and.

[00:26:32] So I think that’s important too. Like as I’m creating this new one, I feel like I need to implement that. Like the first lesson, say if something is tripping you up, you have my permission to, to skip it. Mm-hmm. Go to the next thing that you’re able to complete and revisit this, this sticking point.

[00:26:50] Mm-hmm. Um, Because yes, if, if we say that everything absolutely has to be done in the order that our brain says it is mm-hmm. It might not work for somebody else’s brain. So yeah.

[00:27:01] Rene: For sure. Somebody just shared something on Twitter about, it was like a habit tracker app that didn’t have the thing about streaks.

[00:27:08] You know, a lot of habit tracker apps, like you really wanna build a streak and then if you lose the streak and then you’re like, oh my God, I lost a streak and now my life is terrible. Like, it just doesn’t do that. So it’s, it’s more so the, the concept of like, are you, are you doing it most days or like, are you getting most lessons?

[00:27:27] You know, I think that that is much more helpful approach than like, it has to be this exact thing. You have to do it every single day.

[00:27:34] Angela: Right. Are you doing the best you can?

[00:27:37] Rene: Yes, exactly. Yes.

[00:27:38] Angela: Yeah, and like we just talked about, you know, I mom of three over here, I know you’re a mom. It’s like my kid was sick for the last three days and I was supposed to launch to a beta group like on Monday, and I’m like, it’s not happening.

[00:27:53] Yeah. And so if I have a Habit Tracker app that’s saying, oh, you, you lost like in the midst of being overwhelmed [00:28:00] already, a Habit Tracker app that says fail. You. Yeah. You messed up your streak. I think that would just set me over the edge.

[00:28:07] Rene: Exactly. Yeah, exactly. And you want, I think the purpose of those things, habit trackers or whatever, or even of like course software that kind of tracks your progress is to motivate you.

[00:28:17] So if you find that it’s not motivating you, you know, that one might not be the right one. And I think that, I’ve heard this before about the courses. A lot of people out there will take the courses in different orders. I mean, that just blows my mind because I’m like, oh, there’s a path. Um, but people kind of picking and choosing what they want and picking and choosing the information that’s important to them at that time, I think is so helpful.

[00:28:38] Instead of like a certain completion or, you know, any arbitrary, you know, number or something like that.

[00:28:46] Angela: Yeah. I love that. We don’t need that. Yeah.

[00:28:50] Rene: So how has this product creation been different than the first one? Maybe have you, did you learn anything from the first one that you implemented for this one?

[00:28:59] Um, you mentioned the beta group, um, that will come at some point. Uh, did you do beta for the first one? Like what, what kind of, have you done differently this time or the same?

[00:29:10] Angela: Yeah. I’ve been ruminating on this course and planning for this course behind the scenes, I should say, for a lot longer than the last one.

[00:29:19] Okay. The last course was kind of top of mind for me because that’s where I was focusing my business last year and I was actually working with a business coach at the time that was helping me get this launched and she set a timeline for me. I do well with deadlines. Mm-hmm. Me too. However, however, life was just different.

[00:29:38] So I was able to knock out like the creation of that course in like six weeks. That first one. This one, it’s been months and months of, and, and I’m, I’m okay with this. I really am. But months and months of like, getting on clarity calls with people, asking people in different groups. Um, have you ever been interested in launching an [00:30:00] affiliate program?

[00:30:00] Could, could I get 15 minutes of your time just to, like, I’m not go, going to sell to you. Mm-hmm. I wanna talk to you about what kind of course would work for you, and so, mm-hmm. I’ve gotten a ton of market research this time because I actually want to make this course a lower price point. Um, so I was hoping it was going to take me less time.

[00:30:20] It’s actually taking me more time to reduce the amount of content mm-hmm. And consolidate. Yeah. Um, but really I wanna make it easy for all types of people, like moms in particular, but I wanna make it easy for all types of people to consume. And so instead of having this very formal like, slideshow presentation, which I did the first time around.

[00:30:43] I’m doing, um, a lot of screen shares. I’m making sure that the audio clips are available. So if someone doesn’t wanna watch, they just wanna put it in their earbuds and listen they can do that. So I think that as far as the content, that is going to look a lot different. The content creation process.

[00:31:01] And then the marketing of it is probably gonna be different as well, and I haven’t truly started it, but I, I have, um, walked dozens of clients through this exact process. Mm-hmm. Just not necessarily in the course form. And so now’s the time where I’m like, okay, I have the material pretty much ready, so I’m ready to have some people go through the material and test it out and get feedback.

[00:31:21] Rene: Yeah. That’s nice. Yeah, because then you can kinda finalize in a different way based on the feedback that you get before you kind of put it out there to the world and make sure. And use their language, you know, the language that they have shared with you about their problems or what they’re looking for.

[00:31:37] I think that’s so valuable.

[00:31:39] Angela: Yeah. Yes.

[00:31:40] Rene: Anything else you wanna say about this product or just about affiliate marketing in general?

[00:31:47] Um, like do you recommend if people are going to get started with marketing their digital products, like would you recommend that for a first product? Um, or would you, does it really just depend on the product [00:32:00] and the audience and things like that?

[00:32:02] Angela: Yeah. When I was looking at this question, I was thinking it might be important to mention bundles. If what interests you as a business owner is, okay, I have this digital product, or maybe you have a few digital products and I’m interested in affiliate marketing and I’m, and I already maybe am promoting other products, maybe not in an affiliate relationship, but it could be, um, you might wanna consider offering some of these affiliate partnerships, these affiliate products as part of an incentive for someone to buy your digital product.

[00:32:35] So bundle them together. Not only are you getting my swipe template, you are getting my affiliate link for 20% off this with it or, or whatnot. So, um, that might be kind of a fun way to promote products.

[00:32:49] Otherwise, if you have digital products and you’re interested in kind of gaining more traction and growing your actual offer via affiliates, um, bundles could work in that way as well.

[00:33:01] Rene: So I’ve heard of some bundles. Infostack is one, uh, such bundle where you submit your product and they group it together with a bunch of other related products, and then they sell it for a limited time.

[00:33:15] It has to be worth a certain value. And then, you know, when people buy through your link, they get access to all of those products. Is that kind of what you’re talking about with bundles?

[00:33:29] Angela: Yes. Yeah, I think the biggest thing to be cautious of with bundles is, they’re not evergreen. Okay. And so I do, I do like to teach affiliate marketing that is a little bit more evergreen because if we’re already a really busy business owner and we’re trying to actually like save ourselves some time and make money in the process.

[00:33:50] It’s a lot of work to go back and revisit if, if you’re relying on a bundle on someone else’s launch date and launch timeline because you wanna [00:34:00] promote their offer with your offer. Um, that actually is a lot of work. Okay. I’m gonna be honest, it’s, it’s a lot of work.

[00:34:07] Like launching your own product is a lot of work. Mm-hmm. You know, you don’t have to deal with kind of the aftermath of, um, once the customer’s purchased via your affiliate link, the nice thing is then you’re kind of like gently handing that customer off to that, um, affiliate partner, um, to, to work with them on customer service or like product delivery mm-hmm.

[00:34:29] And that sort of thing. So the aftermath is a little bit easier, but you are essentially like working at a launch with mm-hmm. With sending emails, promoting on social media and that sort of thing.

[00:34:40] But as far as working with digital products to, um, like launching your affiliate, your own affiliate program to promote your digital products.

[00:34:50] I’ve totally done that before. I’ve totally worked with, um, business owners. For example, a gal, um, had an ebook that I worked with, and she was launching this ebook and she wanted to launch with affiliates. So we actually worked together for about six weeks before her book launch. Mm-hmm. And we set up her affiliate program so that she could launch her affiliate or her book launch with her affiliates at the same time.

[00:35:14] And that was her first digital product. Mm-hmm. And so I think it’s just important to set expectations. Um mm-hmm. You know, all of the gurus out there that are saying, I made a hundred thousand dollars this week.

[00:35:26] Rene: $8 billion.

[00:35:27] Angela: Yeah. And, and I don’t, I’m not discrediting them. Right. All I’m saying is we don’t have all the information right.

[00:35:35] About them. Exactly. Do they have 5 million followers on YouTube? Like, right. So generally they’re like a pop culture icon. Or celebrity, or they have a huge audience.

[00:35:48] Rene: For sure.

[00:35:49] Angela: Set expectations.

[00:35:50] Rene: Yes. I totally agree. Yes. Yeah. I think your expectations for your first product should be very, very low. Very, very, very, very low.

[00:35:58] Because you set those so high and you put so [00:36:00] much pressure on yourself to do a thing, like you would never put that pressure on like your kid, for example, for like walking for the first time. You wouldn’t be like, okay, you’re standing up. Better walk across the room. Like, that’s not how it works. You’ve never done this before.

[00:36:12] You’ve never launched a product. You’ve never created a product. You’ve never marketed a product like you’re not going to know. You know, and I think feel like if you set your expectation lower, then you can. If it exceeds that, it will just be gravy. You know? It, it’ll be good.

[00:36:29] Angela: I just, I love that.

[00:36:30] Rene: I’m kind of like a low expectation, like set it down lower.

[00:36:33] You can set it higher later. Set it down lower for now, so I dunno. So tell me about the bundles then. Let’s just kind of revisit the bundle concept.

[00:36:41] Angela: Yes. So if you are wanting to become an affiliate marketer and promote other people’s brands, and along with your digital product, I feel like you could just create, um, affiliate relationships that integrate really well with your offer and promote those with your own launches.

[00:37:01] Rene: Oh, okay. I see. Okay.

[00:37:02] Angela: So if there’s something that makes sense. Like I like to look at the customer purchase path, that’s actually part of My Flourishing Affiliate course is we go through. Who’s your ideal client? And let’s look at people that are, are already working with you or have worked with you in the past and.

[00:37:19] What are they doing or what do they need before they’re working with you? What do they need maybe after working with you? Because those can make really good affiliate relationships because they align well with your audience. They align well with your avatar, but they’re not services that you are providing.

[00:37:35] They’re just complimentary services. And so, yes, you could easily integrate those affiliate relationships into your launch. Like, I think this is important to go with my digital product. I think you need this X, Y, Z course to follow up, or before software. Yes. Software. Okay. Tools. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Okay. Apps sometimes have affiliate programs.

[00:37:57] I think you’d be, you’d be surprised or [00:38:00] authors. Mm-hmm. This material would be really helpful, um, before working with me and, and whatnot. And Nice. An example of that is I, so I help, you know, business owners with affiliate marketing, and if someone comes to me and they’re like, well, I haven’t really been in business that long.

[00:38:18] I don’t really have much of an audience. I don’t really know much about my client avatar. I will say, let’s put a pause on the affiliate marketing. Yeah. I’m so glad it’s a goal for you and I would love to work with you eventually, but mm-hmm. I have some affiliate partnerships that I can actually recommend to you that Oh, nice.

[00:38:35] Help you with business building. Mm-hmm. So let’s go back and look at your messaging and join this membership that can help you with that. Mm-hmm. Take this course. Okay. That can help you with that. And, and then come visit me. Okay. After a bit. Put me in, yeah. In a little bit.

[00:38:49] Rene: Okay. Excellent. So I had another question about when you’re creating content to promote affiliate links, how do you let people know in that content that they, there are affiliate links in the content?

[00:39:03] Angela: Yeah, good question. So the FTC says that you have to disclose that you’re listing affiliate links on your blog, podcast, YouTube channel where wherever it is before affiliate links occur.

[00:39:18] This is especially important in written content, of course, because if you’re gonna put affiliate links in your blog, you want that blurb to be at the top. It can be like grayed out, it can be in smaller print.

[00:39:30] As long as it’s legible. It can just be like a sentence or two. It doesn’t have to be, you know,

[00:39:36] Rene: A huge paragraph.

[00:39:37] Angela: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Um, just so you’re again disclosing like, Hey, I receive a small commission when you click. There’s no extra cost to you, but you’re helping support my small business. And so that’s totally okay to say.

[00:39:52] The one thing they do say is, you shouldn’t allude to the fact that someone is obligated. Okay. To use your affiliate link. Okay. [00:40:00] You’re just letting them know that you have affiliate links in your content.

[00:40:04] Rene: Okay. Great. So do you have some specific wording or can we just kind of make that up as we go? As we’d like to?

[00:40:11] Angela: Um, so I usually start with my clients, like start with something pretty standard and let them customize it. Mm-hmm. Something like, the following links may be affiliate links, which means that when you click and purchase, I receive a small commission. There’s no extra cost to you to click my affiliate links, but you’re helping support my small business or something like that.

[00:40:34] Rene: Okay, cool.

[00:40:35] Angela: There’s a ton of wordings around that. I would say if you go to your favorite blog. Recipe blog, yeah. It, you can grab theirs and, you know, tweak the wording to fit your kind of like brand voice and your, you’ll be just fine.

[00:40:49] Rene: Okay. As long as it’s above wherever you’ve used the links in your content.

[00:40:55] Angela: Correct. Yeah.

[00:40:55] Rene: Do you, like, do you just recommend doing it at the beginning or like, let’s say you have like three paragraphs, then would you stick it in there and then the links like, or no preference?

[00:41:06] Angela: I always do it right at the beginning. If it’s blog content, um, I do it right at the beginning.

[00:41:10] ’cause like I said, you can make it, it a little bit lighter. You can make it, you know, so that not necessarily trying to get it missed by the viewer, but not interrupting the flow of content, I think Right. Is important in my opinion.

[00:41:26] Rene: It’s not part of the story that you’re telling in that blog post.

[00:41:29] It’s kind of like a, like a side note or like a separate thing.

[00:41:32] Angela: Right. With the popularity of affiliate marketing now, people, people actually expect that. Mm-hmm. More so than anything else. You know, people aren’t going, what the heck’s an affiliate link? What? Yes. Mm-hmm. It’s gonna, it’s gonna pay you and I, you know.

[00:41:47] Mm-hmm. People kind of understand the general concept now. Mm-hmm. And of course, in a podcast or YouTube channel, there’s no written content, but you just have to make sure that you’re disclosing that, like in the show notes or

[00:41:59] Rene: Okay. Or in the [00:42:00] description or whatever.

[00:42:00] Angela: Correct. Yep.

[00:42:01] Rene: Cool. Okay. Okay, great. So what two to three things do you recommend for someone creating their first product? It could even be their second product, what you did or didn’t do that you would do differently next time? Any advice for people?

[00:42:16] Angela: Yeah., As a business owner with a digital product, don’t be afraid to explore both paths to affiliate marketing. I think probably 75% of the people that I work with automatically only think of becoming an affiliate. But don’t forget that if you want to kind of expand your offer, to new audiences.

[00:42:38] Launching an affiliate program could really help too. And again, set expectations. It doesn’t necessarily mean that your $47 digital product is going to earn you, you know, millions on the first go round, but it can sure help with expanding brand awareness and expanding your reach pretty quickly, um, because we’re utilizing other people’s warm audiences.

[00:42:59] So, um, I think don’t be afraid to explore both sides of it is probably, um, my main advice.

[00:43:07] Rene: Because that’s great for audience building. I, I think that we kind of discount this, especially in that first product where the first product, like the goal isn’t necessarily to make a million dollars, right?

[00:43:17] Like, I mean, that’d be nice, but you know, the goal to expand your audience, the goal to get the word out there, the goal to create more content. The goal to just have something that you can sell ongoing, you know, beyond the launch. I think those are all really great markers and things to look for. Other than just a specific number of sales in a specific amount of time.

[00:43:39] Angela: Agreed. Agreed. Yeah. And secondly, I think we’ve touched on this a little bit, but it’s kind of an all encompassing, like set realistic expectations for yourself knowing that you are a business owner that’s going to have your business for a long time. So, don’t be in, you know, any sort of rush to get your program, your [00:44:00] affiliate program like launched and maybe making a ton of money for you right away, knowing that this can be a slow build and, um, it can work really well.

[00:44:09] Even just the power of five affiliates in your first launch. Imagine each of your five affiliates has access to their whole audiences. That could be just a monumental increase in, in awareness and increase in, um, success with your digital product launch.

[00:44:26] Rene: Yeah, I love that. Yeah. Other people’s audiences, especially complimentary, I think is super important.

[00:44:31] Even content that I consume when somebody recommends another audience, like I’m curious, like I’m interested and I wanna go scope it out and see if it’s right for me. And I’m sure that, you know, not everybody will sign up or purchase or whatever, but you know, even just kind of getting eyes on, oh hey, this is a person that exists, just that awareness.

[00:44:50] And because I trust the original person, I’m more likely to trust, you know, this new person that they introduced me to. It’s like we’re at a party.

[00:44:58] Angela: Agreed. I love that.

[00:45:00] Rene: A party of like-minded individuals. Yeah. Awesome. Okay, great. Excellent. Thank you. So tell us where we can find you online.

[00:45:09] Angela: So I am on Instagram. My handle is affiliate.coach.angela. And then you can go to my website angelajoymarkham.com and it’s Markum, but it’s spelled Mark Ham. Okay. Um, and you can sign up for my email list there. I have free resources there for both sides. If you wanted to become an affiliate or launch an affiliate program, you can grab my downloads and kind of get started with either.

[00:45:35] Either route.

[00:45:36] Rene: Awesome. Well, thank you so much for being on today.

[00:45:38] Angela: Thanks, Rene. Appreciate it.

[00:45:40] Rene: Yay. Talk to you soon.

[00:45:41] Hey, thanks for listening. I’d love to continue the conversation in your inbox. Email SUBSCRIBE to hey at yfdp.show or sign up in the show notes to get bimonthly emails about how you can create, launch, and market your first digital product. Can’t wait to see you there.